Barbell Bench press shoulder saftey

[william bad butt]

Happy Thanksgiving!

(or at least it is today in America)

I'm thankful for Strongfirst.

Happy Thanksgiving!

I didnt mean to cause this much of a disruption. I was just trying to defend the bench press.

Yes. Everybody responded correctly to what I meant.

Bench press can be built on a 1 day per week program. That's an advantage. I train it once per week for general strength training. If I'm preparing for a meet I may add additional days for speed /technique training (~50% 1RM). But this is more of a practice of my "sport", so to speak. I'm still building strength 1 day per week.

But who am I? I am a nobody in the bench pressing world. But many elite athletes or experts are successful doing 1 day per week, or recommend it. Checkout Brian Carroll's 10/20/Life. Checkout Marty Gallaghers Purposeful Primitive (many golden age powerlifters did this). Checkout the Strongfirst Reload book (it has a 1 day per week program, if I recall). Checkout the old Westside programming, before they adopted the "conjugate training" philosophy (it was still successful). These are just off the top of my head. But for a normal person that wants to build a strong upper body, bench pressing once per week could be very effective. But it isnt the only way.

I wrote what I wrote, earlier today, because I made 2 assumptions. My assumptions were:

(1) I assumed that it was accepted in the Strongfirst community that to improve in the overhead press (kbell or barbell) one needed a lot of frequency/volume. "To press a lot one must press a lot", Pavel (I dont remember which book, probably multiple).
(2) I assumed it is accepted in the Strongfirst community that the bench press programming could work well with classic western powerlifting periodization which is, a lot of times, once per week. There are many examples of this in Strongfirst articles and Pavels writings. I'm not stating that training the bench press multiple days per week wouldnt be effective (there are examples of this in Strongfirst too, such as Planstrong or PTTP Pro).

For a normal person that wants to get strong , using a press, here are 2 options (these probably arent the only 2):

(1) bench press once per week (3x5 or something like that).
(2) some overhead press variant that requires 3 or more days per week of training and more volume with less absolute weight (vs the bench press).

They can both work. But I gravitate more towards option 1. But that doesnt mean I dont do other stuff. I may still add in some tgu's or kbell snatches or kbell presses or pulling movements for hypertrophy and mobility work (movement). Since I only bench press once per week, I have a lot of time available to do these other things. These other lifts (snatches or tgu's or kbell presses)... I program them, but I'm not pushing real hard here. It isnt like my weekly bench press session where I am "giving it my all". I'm just getting the work in, low intensity (maybe 50% of a 1RM). Its not hard on my psyche or CNS. It is restorative.

Option 2 works too. I've done this before as well.

Regards,

Eric

 

[LukeV]

Happy Thanksgiving!

I didnt mean to cause this much of a disruption. I was just trying to defend the bench press.

Yes. Everybody responded correctly to what I meant.

Bench press can be built on a 1 day per week program. That's an advantage. I train it once per week for general strength training. If I'm preparing for a meet I may add additional days for speed /technique training (~50% 1RM). But this is more of a practice of my "sport", so to speak. I'm still building strength 1 day per week.

But who am I? I am a nobody in the bench pressing world. But many elite athletes or experts are successful doing 1 day per week, or recommend it. Checkout Brian Carroll's 10/20/Life. Checkout Marty Gallaghers Purposeful Primitive (many golden age powerlifters did this). Checkout the Strongfirst Reload book (it has a 1 day per week program, if I recall). Checkout the old Westside programming, before they adopted the "conjugate training" philosophy (it was still successful). These are just off the top of my head. But for a normal person that wants to build a strong upper body, bench pressing once per week could be very effective. But it isnt the only way.

I wrote what I wrote, earlier today, because I made 2 assumptions. My assumptions were:

(1) I assumed that it was accepted in the Strongfirst community that to improve in the overhead press (kbell or barbell) one needed a lot of frequency/volume. "To press a lot one must press a lot", Pavel (I dont remember which book, probably multiple).
(2) I assumed it is accepted in the Strongfirst community that the bench press programming could work well with classic western powerlifting periodization which is, a lot of times, once per week. There are many examples of this in Strongfirst articles and Pavels writings. I'm not stating that training the bench press multiple days per week wouldnt be effective (there are examples of this in Strongfirst too, such as Planstrong or PTTP Pro).

For a normal person that wants to get strong , using a press, here are 2 options (these probably arent the only 2):

(1) bench press once per week (3x5 or something like that).
(2) some overhead press variant that requires 3 or more days per week of training and more volume with less absolute weight (vs the bench press).

They can both work. But I gravitate more towards option 1. But that doesnt mean I dont do other stuff. I may still add in some tgu's or kbell snatches or kbell presses or pulling movements for hypertrophy and mobility work (movement). Since I only bench press once per week, I have a lot of time available to do these other things. These other lifts (snatches or tgu's or kbell presses)... I program them, but I'm not pushing real hard here. It isnt like my weekly bench press session where I am "giving it my all". I'm just getting the work in, low intensity (maybe 50% of a 1RM). Its not hard on my psyche or CNS. It is restorative.

Option 2 works too. I've done this before as well.

Regards,

Eric

You are correct. The weightrainer website has a comprehensive list of powerlifting peaking programs by the likes of Fred Hatfield, Ed Coan, Gene Bell, Scott Warman, Tom McCullough, Dan Alexander and others and they are primarily once per week programs. That model, of lifting once weekly and each workout adding weight while lowering reps until a max, has customarily been referred to as American style periodisation

 

[Philippe Geoffrion]

Happy Thanksgiving!

(or at least it is today in America)

I'm thankful for Strongfirst.

Yes Happy (belated) Thanksgiving all. I’m in Paris away from family so quite uneventful but hope y’all enjoyed it and for those who don’t celebrate hope y’all enjoyed your day anyways!

 

[Philippe Geoffrion]

Happy Thanksgiving!

I didnt mean to cause this much of a disruption. I was just trying to defend the bench press.

Yes. Everybody responded correctly to what I meant.

Bench press can be built on a 1 day per week program. That's an advantage. I train it once per week for general strength training. If I'm preparing for a meet I may add additional days for speed /technique training (~50% 1RM). But this is more of a practice of my "sport", so to speak. I'm still building strength 1 day per week.

But who am I? I am a nobody in the bench pressing world. But many elite athletes or experts are successful doing 1 day per week, or recommend it. Checkout Brian Carroll's 10/20/Life. Checkout Marty Gallaghers Purposeful Primitive (many golden age powerlifters did this). Checkout the Strongfirst Reload book (it has a 1 day per week program, if I recall). Checkout the old Westside programming, before they adopted the "conjugate training" philosophy (it was still successful). These are just off the top of my head. But for a normal person that wants to build a strong upper body, bench pressing once per week could be very effective. But it isnt the only way.

I wrote what I wrote, earlier today, because I made 2 assumptions. My assumptions were:

(1) I assumed that it was accepted in the Strongfirst community that to improve in the overhead press (kbell or barbell) one needed a lot of frequency/volume. "To press a lot one must press a lot", Pavel (I dont remember which book, probably multiple).
(2) I assumed it is accepted in the Strongfirst community that the bench press programming could work well with classic western powerlifting periodization which is, a lot of times, once per week. There are many examples of this in Strongfirst articles and Pavels writings. I'm not stating that training the bench press multiple days per week wouldnt be effective (there are examples of this in Strongfirst too, such as Planstrong or PTTP Pro).

For a normal person that wants to get strong , using a press, here are 2 options (these probably arent the only 2):

(1) bench press once per week (3x5 or something like that).
(2) some overhead press variant that requires 3 or more days per week of training and more volume with less absolute weight (vs the bench press).

They can both work. But I gravitate more towards option 1. But that doesnt mean I dont do other stuff. I may still add in some tgu's or kbell snatches or kbell presses or pulling movements for hypertrophy and mobility work (movement). Since I only bench press once per week, I have a lot of time available to do these other things. These other lifts (snatches or tgu's or kbell presses)... I program them, but I'm not pushing real hard here. It isnt like my weekly bench press session where I am "giving it my all". I'm just getting the work in, low intensity (maybe 50% of a 1RM). Its not hard on my psyche or CNS. It is restorative.

Option 2 works too. I've done this before as well.

Regards,

Eric

I don’t think you caused disruption, sir. You raise valid points. There are many, many viewpoints in training, and many that rise in strict opposition to one another. Not to steal from Neo-Confucianism but it is the nature of all things created to spawn polar oppositions to itself.

I think it’s good that we here can offer different viewpoints on a subject. We all have certain views, stances, ideas, beliefs but the fact we can present our individual ideas in discussion rather than argument allows us to all (hopefully) broaden our perspectives a bit. Maestro means teacher but also student. Conversations are best when we both inform yet become informed as well. We are lucky to have, if we do, our minor disputes and disagreements here verbally and not on a battlefield on opposing sides.

 

[Steve Freides]

@watchnerd, I will disagree with your statement about the bio-mechanics of the bench press pre-determining its fate, if you'll permit me to paraphrase what I believe you're saying.

Deep squatting isn't bad for your knees. How one squats may be bad for one's knees.

Deadlifting isn't bad for your lower back. How one deadlifts may be bad for one's lower back.

Bench pressing isn't bad for your shoulders. How one bench presses may be bad for one's shoulders.

I was coaching a young man last week, and he told me he was trying to pinch his shoulder blades together, and that was his main bench press cue. When I gave him different cues that helped fire his lats, he looked like an entirely different lifter and he's already putting up more weight than he used to. We changed his bio-mechanics, at least in my definition of what that means.

One of the biggest cues that has helped my admittedly meager bench press return to its admittedly weak levels of 20 years ago, and which I'm hoping is going to see me to new lifetime PR's in the months and years ahead, is the "lateral arch" we teach at the SFL. It's a real game changer for me and I think it is for a lot of other people, too. And I've mentioned this before over the last few months, but my bench press training is actually helping my shoulders - they feel better, and my t-spine is less rounded, after my BP sessions than before them.

NB: I suppose I shouldn't characterize my BP as "weak" because we characterize the strength standards of the SFL as "not weak" and I met the open age standard at my most recent competition and at age 65. "Strong" is next on my list of goals for my BP.

-S-

 

[watchnerd]

@watchnerd, I will disagree with your statement about the bio-mechanics of the bench press pre-determining its fate, if you'll permit me to paraphrase what I believe you're saying.

Deep squatting isn't bad for your knees. How one squats may be bad for one's knees.

Deadlifting isn't bad for your lower back. How one deadlifts may be bad for one's lower back.

Bench pressing isn't bad for your shoulders. How one bench presses may be bad for one's shoulders.

I was coaching a young man last week, and he told me he was trying to pinch his shoulder blades together, and that was his main bench press cue. When I gave him different cues that helped fire his lats, he looked like an entirely different lifter and he's already putting up more weight than he used to. We changed his bio-mechanics, at least in my definition of what that means.

One of the biggest cues that has helped my admittedly meager bench press return to its admittedly weak levels of 20 years ago, and which I'm hoping is going to see me to new lifetime PR's in the months and years ahead, is the "lateral arch" we teach at the SFL. It's a real game changer for me and I think it is for a lot of other people, too. And I've mentioned this before over the last few months, but my bench press training is actually helping my shoulders - they feel better, and my t-spine is less rounded, after my BP sessions than before them.

NB: I suppose I shouldn't characterize my BP as "weak" because we characterize the strength standards of the SFL as "not weak" and I met the open age standard at my most recent competition and at age 65. "Strong" is next on my list of goals for my BP.

-S-

Steve -- I didn't say benching is inherently bad for your shoulders.

I said making it the only press one does is not optimal for shoulder health, because it has atypical pressing biomechanics.

There are other pressing and reaching patterns that should be trained, too, if you want shoulders to work nicely in all their planes of motion.

 

[Steve Freides]

Steve -- I didn't say benching is inherently bad for your shoulders.

I said making it the only press one does is not optimal for shoulder health, because it has atypical pressing biomechanics.

There are other pressing and reaching patterns that should be trained, too, if you want shoulders to work nicely in all their planes of motion.

Apologies if I misstated, and agree on all points. Thank you, @watchnerd.

-S-