Barbell Bench to OH carryover

[Simply strong]

Having just rewatched a lot of worlds strong man I notice that a) strong man competitors train a LOT of bench press as a primary movement and b) there is no bench press events in strong man - there is always overhead events (like log or axel) or straight arm pushing (like a sled or the wheel of pain events).

How much does the bench press actually carryover to the overhead press?

 

[Antti]

A lot. I think the carryover is bigger from the bench to overhead than the other way around.

Track and field athletes typically do a lot of bench. Pavel also sees the bench as the best press.

Personally, I have managed to improve on my overhead press with only training the bench. I train the overhead press only a couple of months a year and regularly make progress.

 

[BJJ Shawn]

For me, virtually none. My 5RM in OH Press was 100. I then started doing bench press as part of PTTP, and took my 5RM in bench press from 155-190 over the course of 8 weeks or so. As you can see, I’m still a beginner, so the increase is not too surprising. I then started a new program and needed to test my OH press and my 5RM was 105.

In less than one month of actually training my OH press, I hit 105 for 9 followed by 120 for 3. The numbers are not impressive at all, but it shows that bench press did virtually nothing for my OH press.

 

[Simply strong]

For me, virtually none. My 5RM in OH Press was 100. I then started doing bench press as part of PTTP, and took my 5RM in bench press from 155-190 over the course of 8 weeks or so. As you can see, I’m still a beginner, so the increase is not too surprising. I then started a new program and needed to test my OH press and my 5RM was 105.

In less than one month of actually training my OH press, I hit 105 for 9 followed by 120 for 3. The numbers are not impressive at all, but it shows that bench press did virtually nothing for my OH press.

Interesting. So you say you didn’t have much carryover but you still increased your 5RM OHP by 5% during a relatively short amount of time without training it. It seems that even if the carry over for some is small it's still quite significant.

 

[Simply strong]

Pavel also sees the bench as the best press.

Quote? I thought I listened to a podcast or read an article once where he said the double kettlebell press was the best press? Can’t remember where that was though

 

[TimmyCK]

Quote? I thought I listened to a podcast or read an article once where he said the double kettlebell press was the best press? Can’t remember where that was though

Hmm... not sure which article you're referring to but here's where he mentions the BP as the best press: strongfirst.com/the-best-press/

 

[Dayz]

I don't train with barbels anymore, but when I did I got huge carry over to press.

Pavel has also written articles recommending the close grip bench to improve the press:

Bench Press to Kettlebell Press More | StrongFirst

Here is how you use the bench press to set a kettlebell military press personal record within weeks - as designed and explained by Pavel Tsatsouline.

www.strongfirst.com

 

[Mark Limbaga]

No access to a barbell at the moment so I'm doing the floor press with a pair of 28s..

Let me check back in a few weeks how my double bell press improves

 

[BJJ Shawn]

Interesting. So you say you didn’t have much carryover but you still increased your 5RM OHP by 5% during a relatively short amount of time without training it. It seems that even if the carry over for some is small it's still quite significant.

Honestly, for me that was within the margin or error because I can’t be sure that I couldn’t have done 105 from the beginning. 3 weeks of actually training it and I increased it far more, that was my main point.

 

[Boris Bachmann]

BP will absolutely help you overhead press, especially if lock out is an issue at all. I've talked to many an RKC who came to KBs after a powerlifting background (myself included) and had very little difficulty pressing heavier KBs (32kg, 40kg, and heavier) because of the foundation laid largely from bench.

HOW MUCH carryover? I don't know. That depends of course, and specificity matters - to say actually training the overhead press would increase it more is, well, yeah, commonsense I hope.

 

[MikeTheBear]

I'm another one of these strange body types where overhead press carried over to bench. Once you can move decent weight overhead it starts to take a toll on your back. I imagine strongman competitors bench lots in an effort to save their backs.

 

[Hung]

Many strongman have powerlifting background.

 

[Simply strong]

I'm another one of these strange body types where overhead press carried over to bench. Once you can move decent weight overhead it starts to take a toll on your back. I imagine strongman competitors bench lots in an effort to save their backs.

Isn't that a lack of midsection strength though? Weightlifters don’t seem to have the same issue and they OH way more than strongman competitors

 

[Simply strong]

Many strongman have powerlifting background.

Yeah I did wonder if that was more of the reason. Luke Richardson for one recent example.
Though I did laugh at the implication - he went from dominating a tested competition to being almost at the top of one of the most famously untested competitions in the world. Almost like the IPF isn’t entirely drug free ??‍

 

[Antti]

For me, virtually none. My 5RM in OH Press was 100. I then started doing bench press as part of PTTP, and took my 5RM in bench press from 155-190 over the course of 8 weeks or so. As you can see, I’m still a beginner, so the increase is not too surprising. I then started a new program and needed to test my OH press and my 5RM was 105.

In less than one month of actually training my OH press, I hit 105 for 9 followed by 120 for 3. The numbers are not impressive at all, but it shows that bench press did virtually nothing for my OH press.

5% increase in just eight weeks without specific training is great progress. A massive carryover.

I know that being a relative amateur twists the perspective a bit. Personally, a 5% increase in a year with specific training is great progress. You made it with another lift in just eight weeks.

One more thing to consider is that the carryover often needs a bit of specific practice to, well, carry over. In a sense one widens the base with other lifts. Your actual OHP training likely went better because of the bench, you wouldn't have necessarily made the same progress without the bench cycle.

 

[Simply strong]

5% increase in just eight weeks without specific training is great progress. A massive carryover.

I know that being a relative amateur twists the perspective a bit. Personally, a 5% increase in a year with specific training is great progress. You made it with another lift in just eight weeks.

One more thing to consider is that the carryover often needs a bit of specific practice to, well, carry over. In a sense one widens the base with other lifts. Your actual OHP training likely went better because of the bench, you wouldn't have necessarily made the same progress without the bench cycle.

That’s an interesting perspective! Having just read the best press article again I wonder if he would have had better unpracticed improvements in the OHP if he had done get ups after each bench session?

Edit: also maybe if one used a narrower grip if carryover to the overhead press is the primary goal

 

[Antti]

That’s an interesting perspective! Having just read the best press article again I wonder if he would have had better unpracticed improvements in the OHP if he had done get ups after each bench session?

Edit: also maybe if one used a narrower grip if carryover to the overhead press is the primary goal

I'm not sure how much the tgus would have helped. I do see a place for them, but really hard to say how much. I wouldn't be surprised to see a bigger advantage, or maybe just an even wider base.

I had meant to write a post separately on the bench form but yes, I definitely see it influence the carryover. The more you tuck the elbows in and use a narrower grip, the better for the overhead press. If someone does a really pec heavy wide flare, I can see him enjoy less carryover.

 

[Simply strong]

I'm not sure how much the tgus would have helped. I do see a place for them, but really hard to say how much. I wouldn't be surprised to see a bigger advantage, or maybe just an even wider base.

Pavel says in the article that it will maintain overhead mobility so carryover will be more. I can also see it helping as you are holding weight overhead. It also will strengthen your upper back in the same way as the OHP. So my thinking was that if he did get ups after benching each time the carryover to overhead press would increase.

 

[Hardartery]

Having just rewatched a lot of worlds strong man I notice that a) strong man competitors train a LOT of bench press as a primary movement and b) there is no bench press events in strong man - there is always overhead events (like log or axel) or straight arm pushing (like a sled or the wheel of pain events).

How much does the bench press actually carryover to the overhead press?

Strongman competitors do NOT train a lot of Bench Press. When I was competing most of us did not train it at all, and I would bet that plenty of the current competitors train it rarely or not at all, and only as an accessory if they do.
That said, there have been competitions with different forms of BP, it does happen just not often. Most Strongman competitors come from a Power Lifting background, which affects training methods. All of that being said, there are only a couple of possible carryover benefits and they are very lifter dependent. It carries over fairly directly to Log Press, that neutral grip helps translate the power built benching into OH power and it also encourages a back lean that also channels that same strength path. The second way that it MIGHT help is by way of increased triceps development. If tris are a weak point and Bench provides that needed stimulus for progress then it will carry over. You can get additional triceps work a lot of different ways though, so the movement is far from critical. It also tends to decrease your shoulder mobility over time and make certain movements and motions more difficult in competition.

 

[bluejeff]

...there are only a couple of possible carryover benefits and they are very lifter dependent. It carries over fairly directly to Log Press, that neutral grip helps translate the power built benching into OH power and it also encourages a back lean that also channels that same strength path.

This makes me curious: when people say that bench translates to overhead press, how strict are they being with the overhead press? I'm not trying to imply that one way is "best," just that some folks do perform their OVHP with more pronounced backwards "lean," which would involve more upper chest, correct? I do realize that to keep the center mass of the bar over your base of support, you have to lean at least a little (also to not hit your chin).

I guess I wonder if some people are comparing apples to oranges here? That is, those that see a lot of transfer, do you allow your ribs to flare up to press more with the upper pecs + delts, or do you keep the ribs down tight? Conversely, those that do not see as much transfer, are you being very strict with the posture?

In the calisthenics world, there are two kinds of handstand pushups. One with a pronounced arch in the back, and one with a strict bodyline. The former is seen a LOT more often, and the latter is much, much harder. I wonder if the same principle applies here to bench and OVHP.

An interesting test may be a bench to Z-press transfer. There's not as much leeway to lean back on those.

Thoughts?