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Old Forum Best form of martial arts

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Tyler Chism

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I have always wanted to learn martial arts. I have no idea what I would try to learn and I have always wondered what the "best" would be. So I thought I would get on here and ask what everybodys favorite style is, what do you think is most useful? Is there a particular combination of styles that would be superior? And lastly, why does muy thai and jiu jitsu seem to be the most popular styles in mma?
 
The styles that are most effective in mma are the ones that work within the particular set of rules enforced.  If the rules were changed, then the skill set would also change.  In the beginning of mma, the referee would not stand the fighters up if the fight went to the ground and the action stalled.  Head butts used to be legal.  If eye gouging and groin strikes were legal (which I am glad they are not) then there would be a major shift in tactics.  The most effective martial art has a lot to do with how far an encounter escalates.  A ham fisted brawl is much different than a situation where people are literally trying to kill or maim their opponents, and the skill set is different.
 
Impossible question, there is no "best" when refering to martial arts. Each of them have different qualities, my suggestion for you is to take a mixed martial arts class and go from there. I would also recommend finding a place that has no ego's! Good luck!
 
Tyler,

You're getting surprisingly thoughtful advice for the internet.  I wouldn't have anything too substantial to add except that its also a question of where you're coming from and the kind of person you are and what stage of life you're at.  For example, I love taiji and associated Chinese "internal" arts.  Something about it just clicked with me.  But you take most folks and they can practice for decades and never really get it.  For most folks it ends up an exercise in mystical BS.  It was just something with my stage of life and training that worked for me.

I think if you're just getting into it I'd go with good old fashioned Amateur Boxing.  Its simple, straightforward and gives you a sense of your limitations rather quickly.  Muhammad Ali put it well when he said that nobody thinks they can be beaten until they start getting hit.  Its basically a very simple game that doesn't allow for too many illusions.  From limited experience I'd say best to start as simple as you can  before getting too confused with fancy stuff.
 
Thanks everybody! makes sense. I guess I mean useful as in real world defense... But more than that really I just want to win any fight haha. And I was just curious to get peoples different opinions and see what some of ya'lls favorite styles were. I have always thought that I would try to learn them all, obviously this is unrealistic and maybe even counter productive but i would like to learn as many useful techniques as possible.

Charles I am curious about these chinese arts you mentioned, what are they exactly?
 
For simple/direct real world defense, I would say Lam Family Hung Kuen(AKA Hung Gar), Duncan Leung's lineage of Applied Wing Chun or Wong Shun Leung*'s linage of Wing Chun.  I would say Boxing and Shotokan Karate are good too. However, I haven't done neither before.

I would also suggest to get one style to a certain level before you "cross train". 

*Wong is the surname 

I grow up in Hong Kong. My sifu (teacher) taught me Seven Stars Praying Mantis (It might sound "funny", like in those funny kung fu flicks but it is a good/useful style),  a bit of impure Hung Kuen and some other stuff.  Not until I'm 29, moved to Melbourne, Australia, I met a great teacher who do really good Lam Family Hung Gar (and Duncan Leung Wing Chun).

we did lots of partner drills and sparring (if you like) and it is very important.

There're lots of good Kung Fu style.

If I can choose, I would do Pak Mei style

Applied Wing Chun Australia - Students Training in class

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qr1cdWIbcpc
Master Frank Yee TV specials (Hung Gar)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyd6Pq3SdwU

Pak Mei

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFJ0CPbcA3A
 
Tyler, you have many choices.  Krav Maga was, as I understand it, created for the kind of thing you ask about, winning a fight, and borrows from many traditions.  In addition, there are a number of people and groups out there who teach self-defense for business executives and others not interest in becoming martial artists, just in have a small but effective skill set at their disposal should they need it.  You could look up Tony Blauer and Tim Larkin, two names I happen to know but I'm sure there are others as well.

IMHO, if you become highly skilled at _any_ traditional martial arts system, you will be a formidable opponent.  They have all lasted as long as they have because they have proven effective for large numbers of people.

JMO.

-S-
 
Even a blade of grass turns into a weapon in the right hand......besides that.....KYOKUSHINKAI.
 
The simplest answer is to look at what is in your local area that you could attend regularly.  Then visit all the clubs and see which one resonates with you.  Then train hard.

There is no point getting excited about one of the myriad of styles out there if you can't realistically train it regularly.
 
Tyler,

There is a collection of so-called "internal" arts (taiji, baji, bagua, xinyi etc.)  usually associated with the Chinese but which also exist in externally different forms in the Japanese systems.  Basically if you really want to develop skill, sooner or later you're going to end up "internal" in some way anyway, its just the Chinese developed training systems to target this skill specifically.  People make a big deal out of it but most of it is hot air and brain washing.  I don't recommend even bothering until you've been doing "external" stuff involving basic body mechanics and taking and dishing out blows.  That prevents some of the nonsense that ends up taking place when people get too much into their internal stuff.  To give you an idea - I've been training in this stuff for more than seven years now and have studied with people from Halifax to Beijing to Yunnan and I've met maybe five students of this generation who actually got it...the other hundred or so were just deluding themselves and wearing fancy costumes.  And some of this latter cohort had been training for twenty years and convinced themselves they had all sorts of fancy powers.  When someone comes along and actually hits them and breaks their illusions of ultimate mastery they simply dismiss them as "too stiff" or some other nonsense like that.

I've given most of my life and pretty much all of my adult life to martial arts and let me lay out some guidelines:

1 - Don't look for the "right" style - look for the right teacher.  This is, after all, a very personal transmission.  The style is just a scaffolding for imparting understanding gained through training and experience.  People with some kind of "protector" background are often a good choice, be they military, law enforcement, fire, EMS, rescue etc.  These people live it.  Be wary of people who depend on martial arts teaching to make a living, this significantly alters their motives and thus the way they'll train you

2 - Look in low-lying places.  Parks, dingy gyms and generally unappealing non-commercial environments hold the best treasures.  Anyone with prime real estate and lots of staff is not to be trusted.  These people have big overhead costs which means they need to attract as many people as possible and can't risk harming egos.  Martial arts = Systematic Ego Attrition.  If you're not feeling inadequate, unhappy with your progress, overwhelmed by how much you still have to learn AT EVERY POINT IN YOUR TRAINING, then you are not being trained - you are being duped.  Particularly beware of people who promise rapid advancement and praise you from day one.  Proper martial arts training is not really profitable.  It would be nice if it were but its not.  Most people can't handle it.  Most people aren't cut out for it, they want to "play" at martial arts and go home self-satisfied and act like a tough guy around the office cooler because they have a yellow belt.  Very few can understand that there is enough ego-gratification in our society thank you very much and the best man is the one who makes you feel inadequate enough to go home and train harder but not so much that you want to toss yourself off a bridge in despair.

3 - Find someone who's training philosophy echoes the Strong First training methods.  The extent to which this organization and Pavel's training philosophy reflects what I have found to be most effective in my own training is the reason I am so drawn to this community.  Drill basics again and again and again.  Simple grinding out of basic movements will yield far greater skill than all the fancy new moves in the world.  My own personal training core consists of two or three movements I do for several hundred repetitions every day in addition to a single form.  That is the only way I have ever made progress.  When push comes to shove you can't remember the fancy wrist lock you learned in class last week, but your body remembers the punch you threw ten thousand times and can deliver it effectively without thinking.  That is skill.  The rest is commercial fluff.  Also find someone that can train proper observation skills.  This is what I find is most lacking in martial artists at all levels - you cannot learn what you cannot see.  You must train your "eyes" (actually your visual cortex) to see what is going on otherwise you can't progress.  Mirror neurons are the martial artists basic hardware - you must train them until you experience visual/kinesthetic synesthesia as part of your daily life.  Train them and you will progress much faster than others.  Fail to train them and you will never really learn anything.  Find someone who understands this concept and teaches it.

The teacher who really catapulted my own progress taught me basically two things: the importance of basic training and grinding out repetitive, boring sessions until you have some kind of epiphany through them (then it gets really really, really fun) and the importance of training observation.  These are the two fundamental pillars of martial skill.  The rest is either deliberate obfuscation or commercialism.  Don't trust what is too popular.  It attracts the wrong people.  Amateur Boxing is not cool anymore.  So you'll get personal attention from those old guys at the community gyms (if there are still such things in your area...mine closed...thus my shift to Chinese stuff.)  If you want to keep it simpler you might consider Systema since if you're doing Kettlebells you can stick with the Russians.  I like Vladimir Vasiliev and his crew in Toronto, but I don't think Systema is for everyone.  Again, its the teacher.  I really like Vladimir and I really like his students and the community there, so I want to train with them.  I've met people in my "style" who I don't like and don't think are very smart and so I have nothing to do with them.  Martial art, like any art, is ultimately an extremely personal thing, don't let people brainwash you into a mass-mind mentality.  Too many lemmings as it is.

Hope that helps.

 
 
To echo some of what has been said above, there is no best style.  Simple is important, basics are important (I think I just repeated myself but it bears repeating).  Think about rules: BJJ is an amazing art but I have seen very good grapplers perforated when a (training!) knife was added to the mix (I am sure there at BJJ schools that do train in such a way as to deal with a knife, just not ones I have seen).  That brings me to the other really important point that has been mentioned: What is actually available in your area, and who are the teachers?  In many ways the teacher is more important than the style, otherwise you are just spinning your wheels.
 
I would say Jeet Kune Do, Krav Maga and Muay Thai are useful styles.

I believe with Jeet Kune Do the simple and directness of it makes it and effective style for self defense. Its a fast and powerful style that was supposed to be based on simplicity and directness. It works on a Decent set of principles that are effective for modern self defense. Low kicks, hit your opponent before he hits you as Jeet Kune do works on the Principle of having your strong side forward. The idea of interception. The trouble with many Jeet kune do schools is they are selling out, they are bringing far to much groundwork into the game cause they are trying make extra money by appealing to the MMA guys. Yess a man needs a basic groundgame, but ground armbars have no place on the street.

Krav Maga is designed for the street. Its a brutal style thats about doing what ever you can to end the fight quickly and effectively. No fancy rubbish, just quick effective techniques that work.

Muay Thai. Granted you arent gonna kick some in the head on the street. But muay thai for the sheer brutality of it and the power will build in your main strikes well, learning to use the elbows, hands and feet with brutal power and unstoppable force. It will prepare you well for a Brutal scrap as fights often turn messy. But Muay Thai is more a sport than a self defense system still as many principles that will prepare you for the street.
 
If I could answer in my humble opinion, there is not a supreme martial art, because I thinl it's not the martial art that makes a man, but is the man who makes the martial art.

That said, one should choose which style or system is best suited for his body.

Maybe your physical characteristics will fit well in in Karate, in boxing, wrestling  or one of the hundreds of chinese style! Almost of them (surely the one forged during hundreds of year of real life and death defense) have defenses and attacks for any kind of fight, you've to figure yourself wich one fits you.

For myself, I'm studying chinese 6 armonies praying mantis style.
 
I would say that was what Bruce Lee was doing with Jeet Kune Do.

Discovering what is useful from any martial art and incorporating it into it.Constantly evolving and changing.I would be iteresting to see what it would of been if he hadn't passed on.
 
I would say that you should check out as many schools that offer a free class. Find the one that suits you. I do Enshin Karate(a child of Kyokushin mixed with Judo) and I love the fact that we spar with contact and get to throw each other around.
 
All great replies.  As I see it, first you have to ask yourself if this will be a short term or long term commitment?  How I mean that is, are you the kind of person who likes to do lots of outdoor stuff in the summer and tend to not use a gym membership in the summer.  How about two or three nights aweek practicing your art at the club, not to mention practice and strength training on your own also.  I find that most people do not have the time to fully commit to an "art".  So a self defense type club is usually better for the busy person.

Second is what's available in your area?  I know for a fact that for most people, the further from home, the more excuses you will find to not go.  people already have to commute to work,  they don't want another one in the same day!

Finally Cost?  Martial arts can get real expensive, especially over the long term.  I'm going to my teacher's 40th Anniversary Demo in a couple months, and the weekend includes testing, seminar etc.  Plus hotelling it for us out of towners.  It'll be a  $2000 weekend for me. 

lots to think about HUH?  :)
 
Awesome information! thanks a lot for your replies. I havent really looked around to see whats available in my area but it will probably be a while before I can afford any training anyways. But again thanks!
 
It is so much in the nature of men to want to be able to prevail in a fight.

I worked with a guy that had a good friend and cousin that were involved in an incident at a local night club.

The guy's friend returned home from Army basic training.  The friend, cousin, and two other guys (known as the four guys) went to one of the well know local night clubs.  They apparently had a confrontation while inside the club with two other men (two guys).  At 2:00 am, when the club closed, the two guys were escorting two women (the object of the confrontation) to their cars.  The four guys decided to take up the altercation in the parking lot.  One of the two guys went to his car, in which he had a gun.  One of the four guys, the one who had just returned from Army basic training, and had a young wife and baby at home, thought that he was tough enough to take the gun away from him and shove it up his a#@.  The guy with the gun said that he didn't want any of it and that he would shoot if he was approached.  The Army guy put his hand on his throat.  He got shot in the chest and died on the scene.  Two of the other four guys ran at the shooter and were shot down.  Both of them went to ICU.

In the state of Texas. it is legal to carry a gun in your car, no license required.  No charges were pressed against the shooter.  It was within his legal rights to shoot his attackers.

It is really stupid to fight a total stranger if there is any way at all of avoiding it.  The Army guy should have gone home to his wife.  Being too tough for his own good was no good.

When you fight a total stranger, you have no way of knowing what they are capable of and how far they are willing to escalate a situation.

Marital arts is all well and good, but don't fight people that you don't have to fight.  Go home.

I kind of think that carrying a gun, with license of course, is the best form of self defense.  When you carry a gun, you are obligated to make every attempt to avoid a confrontation in which you might ultimately have to use a gun.  The courts will not be lenient on a man that is carrying a gun, provokes a situation, and then shoots in "self defense".   It forces you to avoid trouble.

 

 

 

 
 
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