Old Forum "Best Press" article??

[CharlieJay]

I read Pavel's "Best Press article" and I'm a bit confused. I thought he considered strong man lifts like the Side Press and Bent press, ect to be "better" lifts. I'm surprised he didn't write PTTP with the Bench press instead of the Side press.

I've never really gotten into bench pressing. Am I missing out?

 

[Andrew Palmer]

Pavel explained his reasoning in the best hip hinge article as to which lifts or exercises he chose.

Bent presses rule btw

 

[HerrMannelig]

I thought he considered strong man lifts like the Side Press and Bent press, ect to be “better” lifts. I’m surprised he didn’t write PTTP with the Bench press instead of the Side press.

I’ve never really gotten into bench pressing. Am I missing out?

It depends on the goal. As a "press", the bench press is a good press. A side press, military press, pushup, etc is more than just a press. One armed presses in particular are more than just presses. As a human movement, a bench press is pretty isolating.

I do not and never have bench pressed, however, if I had other goals than what I do, I would for the benefits it can give.

The bench is so effective because it involves a great many muscle groups, enables one to handle very heavy weights, and does not present stabilization or coordination challenges.  A great plus is that the BP can thrive on a very low training volume.

As the article states, the focus is on the press, not the entire effect of the movement. One can do one arm pushups or side presses exclusively without harm, but bench press only, and you'll have many issues. And, if you want the strength of pressing, dips are praised in the same article if you can do them safely. Speaking of which:

(Properly done dips must be done in a hollow position though. I will ask Geoff Neupert, Master SFG, to write a blog on this topic in the future.)

I would be most interested in reading an article on dips from SF.

 

[HerrMannelig]

Bent presses rule btw

Yes, but not as a press.

 

 

[Jason Ginsberg]

Pavel wrote Pttp in the late 90's. This article was written in what, 2012? 2013? The man is allowed to change his mind on some things. Furthermore, he doesn't say that he no longer likes side press, bent press, etc (bent press is still taught in SFG2, one arm and two arm kettle bell press in SFG), just that maybe they are not the best overall choice for everyone. In addition, a while back on the dragondoor forum, he said that if he would re-write pttp, he would change it to bench press because almost no one followed his advice to do the side press anyway.

Here's some thoughts of mine on the subject.  Other than a several week period where I followed Pavel's bench to military press more article, I've never benched. I got my start with weights with pttp, then etk, and have always put things overhead in a variety of ways.  However, if I had it to do over, I might very well consider it, and have experimented a bit in using it with some people for pttp.  While it can be a very technical movement, especially in the hands of a geared powerlifter, it can also be learned fairly easily at a low, basic level, which I have not really found to be as true with the barbell side press, especially for beginners.  Progress is also easier. I have also heard it said, although I don't have the experience to verify, that bench supports overhead presses better than the other way around.  So it might not be bad to build some strength there first.  Certainly, in the days of the press as a competitive lift, many great olympic pressers, including Tommy Kono, used bench and or incline bench as an assistance exercise, so it must have some carryover.

Bench, when done properly, and over time, becomes a whole body exercise, and if one is not going to the outer reaches of powerlifting competition, it is by no means inevitable that injuries will result. I have many counter-examples and this was discussed on this forum and others a while ago.

Bent press is also an excellent exercise, and can be a good standalone press, but it's not suitable for everyone's needs and circumstances and abilities, although I do think it should get more attention than it's been given.  I think the barbell press has also been unfairly overlooked, and think it goes well with pttp; I've been using it that way recently, with good results. Lastly, I think for many reasons, including practical ones, the side press and bent press are better done with a kettlebell for most people, like the getup (which can also be done with a barbell), so they fit better in that framework.

 

[HerrMannelig]

Pavel wrote Pttp in the late 90′s. This article was written in what, 2012? 2013? The man is allowed to change his mind on some things. Furthermore, he doesn’t say that he no longer likes side press, bent press, etc (bent press is still taught in SFG2, one arm and two arm kettle bell press in SFG), just that maybe they are not the best overall choice for everyone. In addition, a while back on the dragondoor forum, he said that if he would re-write pttp, he would change it to bench press because almost no one followed his advice to do the side press anyway.

I do not think the excellent work Power to the People really has a "best" combination. The point is to make a good combination of two lifts for strength. It would be equally good for the most part with almost any press. Personally, I'd go for calisthenics or the Clean and Press. The program is easily adapted to any lift almost, maybe even centred around the Clean and Press exclusively. It must be quite tricky to commit to two particular lifts in a published book.

 

[Jason Ginsberg]

Joseph, I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with in what I wrote.  The pttp program works very well, and yes, there are a variety of possible presses that could work, and I mentioned using it with barbell clean and press. A variety of deadlift styles work as well; this is mentioned in the book, and people are encouraged to experiment with different styles, including conventional, sumo, snatch grip, frog, etc. Really, there should probably be another chapter talking about different presses in the same fashion, and let people do a cycle of one, then a cycle of another.

When people reach a certain point with pttp, although it could be used for quite some time, it might not be a bad thing to move on to the 40 day plan from Easy Strength, or EES as outlined in Intervention.

 

[Andrew Palmer]

Pttp does have the floor press in addition to various deadlifts and the biceps curl.

Why don't bent presses rule "as a press"? I always found that unless I'm pressing myself hard into the floor, then I would lose the bell or bar.

 

[CharlieJay]

Hmm, all very interesting. Since the Bent press is not truly a press, should one be rotating it with an overhead press? In other words, is it less of a stand along exercise?

 

[Mattsirpeace]

I swore off benching years ago.  Still, I can't resist testing it every once in a while.  Over the last year and a half my kettlebell press went from 36 kg to 40 kg.  My bench went from 245 to 255 with zero pec work -- no bench, no pushups, no dips.

 

[HerrMannelig]

Joseph, I’m not sure what you’re disagreeing with in what I wrote.

I am not disagreeing with anything. I was commenting on that a case could be made for any sort of press, from a bent press to a bench press, for the PTTP program. There is no "right" combination. Depending on one's level of training and knowledge, having a list of exercises and choosing oneself may be good, but for those just starting, a "by the book" program is often the best. I personally never followed any specific program in Pavel's books exactly, but I followed the principles.

When people reach a certain point with pttp, although it could be used for quite some time, it might not be a bad thing to move on to the 40 day plan from Easy Strength, or EES as outlined in Intervention.

It depends on the goal. I think one handed over head presses are a great exercise and can be done exclusively. A person who just wants to be "strong", would not do poorly practicing only that kind of lift.