Best time to do weights in a sprint training day (Track and field)

Pablo25

Level 1 Valued Member
Hello everyone.

I'm a amateur sprinter athlete in track and field however I'm trying to jump on to a very good level (one step behind elite), so my specialization is 100 m and 400 m and I'm realizing that weights training program is a must... ok, having said that I just wondering ¿what time in the day would be the best option to do weights and have the best outcome?

(all following shown is at daily basis)

Option A:
Do weights at very morning (6 am)
Do sprint work out (track and field, power and speed) at evening (7 pm)

Option B:
Do sprint work out (track and field, power and speed) at very morning (6 am)
Do weights at evening (7 pm)

I would like really choose option A because of my work and daily way of life... is more practical for me... but if you guys have a very serious point of view of each option and share to me I'll be so grateful.

Many thanks.
 

offwidth

Level 9 Valued Member
Hello everyone.

I'm a amateur sprinter athlete in track and field however I'm trying to jump on to a very good level (one step behind elite), so my specialization is 100 m and 400 m and I'm realizing that weights training program is a must... ok, having said that I just wondering ¿what time in the day would be the best option to do weights and have the best outcome?

(all following shown is at daily basis)

Option A:
Do weights at very morning (6 am)
Do sprint work out (track and field, power and speed) at evening (7 pm)

Option B:
Do sprint work out (track and field, power and speed) at very morning (6 am)
Do weights at evening (7 pm)

I would like really choose option A because of my work and daily way of life... is more practical for me... but if you guys have a very serious point of view of each option and share to me I'll be so grateful.

Many thanks.
Reach out to @ali

but I would do what’s important first and when fresh...so B
 

Molson

Level 5 Valued Member
Hello everyone.

I'm a amateur sprinter athlete in track and field however I'm trying to jump on to a very good level (one step behind elite), so my specialization is 100 m and 400 m and I'm realizing that weights training program is a must... ok, having said that I just wondering ¿what time in the day would be the best option to do weights and have the best outcome?

(all following shown is at daily basis)

Option A:
Do weights at very morning (6 am)
Do sprint work out (track and field, power and speed) at evening (7 pm)

Option B:
Do sprint work out (track and field, power and speed) at very morning (6 am)
Do weights at evening (7 pm)

I would like really choose option A because of my work and daily way of life... is more practical for me... but if you guys have a very serious point of view of each option and share to me I'll be so grateful.

Many thanks.
According to Louie Simmons, you’d sprint in the morning and do weight training in the evening:

 

Steve Freides

Staff
Senior Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
My usual advice is, “Do what is most important first.” But your sessions are already a half day apart so it really should be ok either way.

-S-
 

Pablo25

Level 1 Valued Member
According to Louie Simmons, you’d sprint in the morning and do weight training in the evening:

Thanks Molson for sharing this material.... pure wisdom.
 

Pablo25

Level 1 Valued Member
My usual advice is, “Do what is most important first.” But your sessions are already a half day apart so it really should be ok either way.

-S-
Ok, so I think if resting time is almos greather that 4 hours between sprinting and lifting (weight work) ¿then I can take option A? Sounds logic but I wonder if ¿there is any difference between sleep resting or awake resting (I can stay static under my office desktop jeje)?
 

Pablo25

Level 1 Valued Member
Ok, understood option B is prefered option to take. Don't get me wrong guys if you say to me "Option B" ok I can understand. However ¿What will be the implications for taking option A?

I mean, I can rest more than 4 hours between each workout (sprint/weights)

I really appreciate you answers my friends. Thanks.
 

Molson

Level 5 Valued Member
One thing that you will need to test is after evening sessions. See if either option helps you fall asleep and sleep better. In other words excite the CNS less.
 

Pablo25

Level 1 Valued Member
One thing that you will need to test is after evening sessions. See if either option helps you fall asleep and sleep better. In other words excite the CNS less.
Ok, understood. Nice point of view involving central nervous system. Thanks.
 

ali

Level 6 Valued Member
Thank you for tagging me @offwidth ...I've no idea!
How old are you @Pablo25 ?

I see the sprintverse through training for an older athlete, over 35/40.
Sprint discourse and training generally is pitched towards youth. And so, sprint programmes need to be modified and notably max velocity volume, session vol and weekly.
Certainly not going to be critical of training twice a day...it may be appropriate for you...but it isn't something I'd do.
Having said that, do your sprinting fresh.
Your 100/400 events are similar but different....are you focusing in one, any preference?
Of course you can be good at both but for top times, I'd focus on one and go with the other for a second event. Again age, recovery, training time are factors. Elite short sprinters are rarely elite at long sprints, and vice versa.
Again, age/recovery dictating.
Wise to get some eyes on you. Do you need strength or technique tweaks to bridge sub-elite to elite gap?
As you know, there are many moving parts.
Without extra details, a safe bet to get faster is to really zone in on gaining speed v 400 endurance requirements.
You can do shorter max velocity speed sessions before a strength session or endurance. And that means if splitting am and pm sessions, speed in the morning.
I would caveat that by your pm sessions to be moderate, both if strength focused or speed endurance volume.
Probably more questions than answers. I'm at that bridge too, not embedded elite class but hovering on the divide.
If in doubt, do less.
Hope that helps.
 

Pablo25

Level 1 Valued Member
Thank you for tagging me @offwidth ...I've no idea!
How old are you @Pablo25 ?

I see the sprintverse through training for an older athlete, over 35/40.
Sprint discourse and training generally is pitched towards youth. And so, sprint programmes need to be modified and notably max velocity volume, session vol and weekly.
Certainly not going to be critical of training twice a day...it may be appropriate for you...but it isn't something I'd do.
Having said that, do your sprinting fresh.
Your 100/400 events are similar but different....are you focusing in one, any preference?
Of course you can be good at both but for top times, I'd focus on one and go with the other for a second event. Again age, recovery, training time are factors. Elite short sprinters are rarely elite at long sprints, and vice versa.
Again, age/recovery dictating.
Wise to get some eyes on you. Do you need strength or technique tweaks to bridge sub-elite to elite gap?
As you know, there are many moving parts.
Without extra details, a safe bet to get faster is to really zone in on gaining speed v 400 endurance requirements.
You can do shorter max velocity speed sessions before a strength session or endurance. And that means if splitting am and pm sessions, speed in the morning.
I would caveat that by your pm sessions to be moderate, both if strength focused or speed endurance volume.
Probably more questions than answers. I'm at that bridge too, not embedded elite class but hovering on the divide.
If in doubt, do less.
Hope that helps.

I'm 38 years old... I know I'm not a very fresh young teenager but at this time of my life I'm very focused trying to raise my sprinting level at pre-elite level. Only to share some of my info is my PB in 100 is 11.95 s (4 years ago) withouth any kind of sprint trining (nor technique or speed endurance... nothing) in 400 m was 56 s. When I reached those PBs I remember that I did weight worksouts (at my flat) every morning before to go my job in a very bodybuilding fashion. My goals are: 100m = 10.8 s, 400 m = 47 s.


Nowadays I'm involved in a faily good training workouts and planning schedules including max velocity drills, tempo running, speed endurance and so on. I've been trining under this strategy for 4 months and as incredible as it may seem I see a very good outcome right now, my speed endurance is better, I feeling the right technique for max velocity on my body, of course before of this time really I didn't understand the sprinting biomecanics and foof dorsiflexion.. that's very important... now I'm feeling good, my progression is on the way with tangible results. So I feel the weight workouts is missing in my training strategy and I think is a must but I really want make any mmistakes about harming my body or overtrainig ... you know I can do weights as daily basis without logic inside but that's not the point (I feel)


You make me realize that I need to have a primary and seconday event.....mmm.... ok, nice point of view... , so having said that I would choose a 100m as my primary and 400 m as seconday event because of age issues..... I'm not getting more younger as time passes by. :)
 

ali

Level 6 Valued Member
Good choice!
Sub 11 for 35/40 is a top time, as is 47 for a 400.
No clue what would be best for you....1 sec increase and 9 sec increase is a big jump.
I'd seek a coach. Let him/her pin down what you may need to work on. And get a structured programme.

It maybe the case that you're better suited for 400.
I favour speed based on my bias of shorter sprints, being crap at 400s that I am. So don't let that cloud your judgement. Get a second and third opinion.
Absolutely try out any approach. Seems that what you do has worked but there is that point where to bridge a level requires another input, or different input. And that may not be more work but less with better quality.

If doing any intense lifting I'd keep sprinting separate.
Feel free to experiment, generally intensity of sprinting and intense lifting do not mix well.
Max velocity with easy or moderate strength.
Max intense lifting with easy or moderate running. As a broad template, that is.

Good luck. Interested to know how it all goes.
 

Pablo25

Level 1 Valued Member
Hi Ali, Hi Everyone.

Time passes by and here me again ... ok, .. not so much time. So in this time I've been training as a daily basis but there was something strange that just happened to me:

I remember that I did some hard plyometrics session some saturday (after aug 30) addresing to legs, core and upper body. So after that session I felt tired but good, sunday day afer I felt with sore in upper body (like lactic pain you know), legs were good but tired. Before this session I had been doing plyos but a lower intensity .... after this sessions I felt marvelous.

Ok, next Monday (after hard Saturday plyo session) went to do sprint work out, I did 5x500, first 400 m in aerobic good pushing pace, the last 100 to top speed (lactic trainig) .... At this session I felt awfull my time lowered by 3 secs (total time 1 m 29 secs) whithout hard plyo sessions I had been doing 1 min 26 approx. The whole week all my track trainings went in someway wrong: felt tired, no explosive power, dropping times ......

I think the plyo intensity that I did use that Saturday was not a good choice, maybe I would have choosen something between low - Medium but rising a little bit and not too much as I did. Honestly I need to add strenght / lifting training because I don't do so ... yes ... sprinting is strenght. Now I'm in the specific preparation phase but thinking to step back to get in shape and start to do some lifting training.

That's why I shoot this question in this site, to know more about how to schedule power / lifting / plyo workouts. The recent experience that I had (saturday) is .... whatever schedule I will choose to use better to do in a gradual way and not do intense sessions whitouth a strength foundation (ok ... I'm not skinny I have some high strength but not the necessary to raise to sprinting level that I desire) .......... but ok .... first sprinting and after that .... strenght training.
 

Pablo25

Level 1 Valued Member
I may have misunderstood your post - 1.29 sec...is that for a 400m?
No problem. 1.29 secs was in a 500 m series workout (not 400 m)

Monday session (lactic) :
5x500m, first 400 run tempo (1:12) last 100 m run at maximal effort
Series 1:
1:29 (approx)
Series 2:
1:30
Series 3:
1:32
Series 4:
1:31
Series 5:
1:32

I used to do 1:26 in average.
 

ali

Level 6 Valued Member
Plyos are intense. Easy to overdo things ...looks like you've found your limit.
Pros and cons of adding speed at the end.
Good for fatigue management/training, bad for speed.
If going down the route of doing 400s and 100s and currently training 400s ....is there benefit to going all out when already tired and fatigued, and under recovered from plyos?
For you, that is, right now?

If you were competing in a 400 in 2 weeks time and you haven't really trained extensively, then maybe but otherwise?

I get the speed tempo but perhsps drop the all out finish as an option?

I'd favour (light) plyos and quality warm up, short quality speed first....then tempo/lactate sub max.
Use quality warm ups and drills and short speed sprints AS plyo.

Can you get a coach?
 

Pablo25

Level 1 Valued Member
Plyos are intense. Easy to overdo things ...looks like you've found your limit.
Pros and cons of adding speed at the end.
Good for fatigue management/training, bad for speed.
If going down the route of doing 400s and 100s and currently training 400s ....is there benefit to going all out when already tired and fatigued, and under recovered from plyos?
For you, that is, right now?

If you were competing in a 400 in 2 weeks time and you haven't really trained extensively, then maybe but otherwise?

I get the speed tempo but perhsps drop the all out finish as an option?

I'd favour (light) plyos and quality warm up, short quality speed first....then tempo/lactate sub max.
Use quality warm ups and drills and short speed sprints AS plyo.

Can you get a coach?
Feedback following:

Plyos are intense. Easy to overdo things ...looks like you've found your limit.
- I don't think so, I believe I'm going throughout an adaptation process, my body and mind needs to assimilate hard workouts.

Pros and cons of adding speed at the end.
Good for fatigue management/training, bad for speed.
If going down the route of doing 400s and 100s and currently training 400s ....is there benefit to going all out when already tired and fatigued, and under recovered from plyos?
- It seems no benefit at all, that workout were very useful to realize that I need to do plyos (intense) 2 days before of. Otherwise if I do plyos (intense) 1 day before speed workout I will feel really bad plus I'm in adaptation process ( I think)

For you, that is, right now?

- Yes however that workout must be done when fresh. Is a part of lactic and speed endurance workout.... but fresh.

If you were competing in a 400 in 2 weeks time and you haven't really trained extensively, then maybe but otherwise?
- Sorry, I don't get this question, ¿Could you be so kind to reformulate?

I get the speed tempo but perhsps drop the all out finish as an option?
- No, workout was made in that way, first 400 m tempo last 100 m all out (speed). All in one race.

I'd favour (light) plyos and quality warm up, short quality speed first....then tempo/lactate sub max.
- Ok, good, I take that advice, and yes.... I do quality speed first = Max Velocity Wickets (Drills) after that workout of the day tempo/lactate sub max. Definetely I need to do plyos I could see changes in my performance with that. I do plyos in a special day (power training day) outside the track and field workout day. So... I'm adding light plyos in T&F workout day.

Use quality warm ups and drills and short speed sprints AS plyo.
- mmm.... I think plyos is a very dedicated word to mean short jumps and explosive movement, actually I do a special warm up: dynamic, quick fiber activation, short sprints and workout of the day... but... I like you advice to add plyos... I think I can add some of those after quick fiber activation.

Can you get a coach?
- This is a very sad question.
Short answer: There is no way.
Long story: I spend a lot of years with a coach sharing my dreams to be a really good sprinter but somehow he said to me that I can't be successfull in that, then instead of sprinting he advised to me to get into triple jump or other T&F event but after a couple of years I realized he really hadn't the skills and necessary proficiency to teach sprinting so I gradually lost interest and passion to train under his tutelage but always with focus to do sprinting. Ok, at this momento you probably can say "Ok my fiend So ¿Why Didn't you pick up another coach?, you see there is no a lot of coach with proficiency and skills/experience to sprint and the few that have the proficiency are in places like god only know and very far from my place (another state... but there is a very very few coaches) plus that maybe I can't get same schedule as him... really .... sprinting have a very low level here in Mexico in the other hand you can find a soccer coach inside a radius of 200 m near to you and a soccer player in 20 m radius (anywhere you be), unfortunately that is the ugly true. So 1.5 year ago I got tired to go nowhere and I started to get education, learn english (not good but still progressing), sprinting programs and books, T&F gear block start, proper spikes ...not low quality spikes shoes.. that was the coach recommendation and most importantly train by myself, putting all the learning I got and improving in real life (daily training). Since then I've seen a very solid progress.... slow but bigger that I had with past coach. Here we say "I'm putting all the meat into the gril" (sparing no expense on ...)

Of course there is another pieces in this "sprint" puzzle that I don't know how to handle so that's why I'm here to improve my knowledge.

Sorry, I think I deviated from the main objective in this post chain, very dramatic..jaja....... Ok.... So..... let's do sprint work out first and after that weight/power/lifting workout.
 

ali

Level 6 Valued Member
I feel your pain. Sprint coaches are hard to find, especially ones for older athletes. A lot of my outlook is derived from other master sprinters who are also coaches. And I take advice from them in terms of programming.
I do have a coach now for some technique tune ups but covid has interfered and that's not happened this year. And for the same covid related reasons I've not been sprinting and decided not to compete in winter this year, the comps will probably be cancelled anyway.

Good luck with the training.
 
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