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Barbell Better Mobility Is Killing My Gains

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watchnerd

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Now that I'm switching from off-season to pre-season, all the off-season mobility work I did to improve my range of motion in my barbell lifts is coming in to play.

  • I can get deeper into the hole in my front squats with fully upright form, even barefoot, thanks to better dorsiflexion and more open hips.

  • My front rack grip has gone from 3 fingers to a full grip, due to better thoracic extension and better wrist mobility.

  • My overhead squat is now collar to collar, thanks to better shoulder stability, letting me get tighter.

And all of these increased ranges of motion means I've had to drop my weights by 10+ kg kilogram on each lift because I'm hitting new positions and farther ROM that I'm weak in....

And my butt is sore.

I haven't had sore glutes from barbell squats in years....

Is there a reverse WTH effect? ;)

No particular advice needed, I'm just whining and thought it ironic that I'm probably doing my lifts technically better than I have in years, and watching my numbers go down as a result....
 
Last Xmas Holiday I was passing through Jacksonville so I stopped at Brian Carroll's gym. He reviewed my warmup. I was shocked when he told me I was too hyper mobile in the hips (watching me goblet squat). I had complete range of motion, butt to ground. A prying goblet squat, like how its taught in S&S. I thought this was a good thing! I've always had very good mobility and flexibility, especially for a 200+ lb guy.

He told me that if I want to squat bigger weights, I need to get tighter (more stable) in my hips. He changed my goblet squat (much wider, stop at parallel, slight pause, explode up). I recall thinking that losing mobility cant be a good thing. Can it?

Cue the Bruce Lee quote where "A [squat] is just a squat...", I had that epiphany over the last 6 months...

It's now mid June and I'm squatting my old maxes for 3sx5r. I'm 40 and have been lifting for over 20 years. Let that sink in for a sec...

Have I lost mobility? Maybe. The other day I tried to do 1 rep of a prying goblet squat. I could do it. But things were tight, it was uncomfortable.

Many would probably read this and think I made a bad trade. The extreme hip mobility being better than the extra strength. Maybe. I know how to get it back if I ever change my mind.

Regards,

Eric
 
Interesting thread. I've always had good hip mobility, decent ankle mobility, and somewhat limited shoulder mobility. My wrists seem to be a bit limited, too, especially the last few years (>50 yrs old).

In kettlebell training I found that what I had was adequate and supported what I was doing, although working on the t-spine consistently improved things over time and helped everything I was doing.

In barbell powerlifting / general strength lifting I found that what I had was adequate and perhaps a bit more than I needed, as @william bad butt describes. So I sort of stopped working on it these past few years.

Then I started weightlifting (Oly) and discovered that it could be better and that would help my lifts. Last night I actively worked on my ankles as shown in this post from Catalyst Athletics yesterday and I found that it really helped my bottom position... although it changed it, and I had to adjust a few things, as @watchnerd described.

Mobility is definitely not a simple destination nor a straightforward journey.
 
Now that I'm switching from off-season to pre-season, all the off-season mobility work I did to improve my range of motion in my barbell lifts is coming in to play.

  • I can get deeper into the hole in my front squats with fully upright form, even barefoot, thanks to better dorsiflexion and more open hips.

  • My front rack grip has gone from 3 fingers to a full grip, due to better thoracic extension and better wrist mobility.

  • My overhead squat is now collar to collar, thanks to better shoulder stability, letting me get tighter.

And all of these increased ranges of motion means I've had to drop my weights by 10+ kg kilogram on each lift because I'm hitting new positions and farther ROM that I'm weak in....

And my butt is sore.

I haven't had sore glutes from barbell squats in years....

Is there a reverse WTH effect? ;)

No particular advice needed, I'm just whining and thought it ironic that I'm probably doing my lifts technically better than I have in years, and watching my numbers go down as a result....
A lot of very good very mobile OLY lifters out there. Will be interesting to see if you notice any extra ATG spring and bounce when you get used to it
 
I second @Alan Mackey, just from a basic physics standpoint, if the weight is traveling further under the same load, then the force demand has also increased to get the bar back up.
Just speculation but...
in your new ROM is where new inter- and intramuscular coordinative demands are being placed and your body is working harder to compensate. There may also be some sort of stretch-reflex that's causing additional stress to your glutes? Who knows. Keep at it, though!
 
A lot of very good very mobile OLY lifters out there. Will be interesting to see if you notice any extra ATG spring and bounce when you get used to it

I had my wife measure my squat clean depth with a laser and it's 2" lower.

So even if I don't get the extra ATG stretch reflex, I appear to be faster under the bar.
 
I second @Alan Mackey, just from a basic physics standpoint, if the weight is traveling further under the same load, then the force demand has also increased to get the bar back up.
Just speculation but...
in your new ROM is where new inter- and intramuscular coordinative demands are being placed and your body is working harder to compensate. There may also be some sort of stretch-reflex that's causing additional stress to your glutes? Who knows. Keep at it, though!

Yes, the reason is obvious.

It's just weird to feel like a newbie again as I get used to changes in ROM.
 
Last Xmas Holiday I was passing through Jacksonville so I stopped at Brian Carroll's gym. He reviewed my warmup. I was shocked when he told me I was too hyper mobile in the hips (watching me goblet squat). I had complete range of motion, butt to ground. A prying goblet squat, like how its taught in S&S. I thought this was a good thing! I've always had very good mobility and flexibility, especially for a 200+ lb guy.

He told me that if I want to squat bigger weights, I need to get tighter (more stable) in my hips. He changed my goblet squat (much wider, stop at parallel, slight pause, explode up). I recall thinking that losing mobility cant be a good thing. Can it?

Cue the Bruce Lee quote where "A [squat] is just a squat...", I had that epiphany over the last 6 months...

It's now mid June and I'm squatting my old maxes for 3sx5r. I'm 40 and have been lifting for over 20 years. Let that sink in for a sec...

Have I lost mobility? Maybe. The other day I tried to do 1 rep of a prying goblet squat. I could do it. But things were tight, it was uncomfortable.

Many would probably read this and think I made a bad trade. The extreme hip mobility being better than the extra strength. Maybe. I know how to get it back if I ever change my mind.

Regards,

Eric

I think there is a big difference in powerlifting vs weightlifting in this respect.

Any mobility deeper than a parallel squat may be a waste of energy in powerlifting.

In weightlifting, faster under the bar / going deeper, should mean bigger cleans and snatches with any lifter beyond the novice* level.

*if you're still power snatching and power cleaning, then extra mobility won't help until you learn how to use it.
 
I was thinking about this yesterday, during Zoom-jitsu. I am squatting more than I've ever squatted before, and I can't comfortably pull off an arm bar from mount. But it's ok. I guess I'm still in "off-season" training.
 
Hello,

I think mobility may be different in function of our goals and needs. For instance, a grappler / BJJ guy may need more shoulder mobility than a kickboxer.

I have never noticed an issue (lifting heavy in full ROM) being supple because I train my mobility all year long, everyday, and the same way, for years. I think that doing so have protect me from imbalances due to any other physical activities.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
He told me that if I want to squat bigger weights, I need to get tighter (more stable) in my hips. He changed my goblet squat (much wider, stop at parallel, slight pause, explode up). I recall thinking that losing mobility cant be a good thing. Can it?
Goblet squat is a mobility drill. Wide stance, stop at parallel is a competition squat where you're trying to move the most weight. Two different things.

And all of these increased ranges of motion means I've had to drop my weights by 10+ kg kilogram on each lift because I'm hitting new positions and farther ROM that I'm weak in....
Your newfound range of motion doesn't need to be used in your competition lifts (unless, of course, you need it there).

This all goes back to the "move in a lot of ways but don't load them all" idea. My personal favorite way to squat with a barbell is to use a light enough weight that I can get really deep, exhale, and then repressurize to come up. But if I'm training for a 3-lift meet, I'll warmup that way and then, as the weights get heavier, my breathing changes, my stance chances, and my depth changes. Right tool for the job at hand and all that.

-S-
 
as the weights get heavier, my breathing changes, my stance chances, and my depth changes. Right tool for the job at hand and all that.
BTW, there is a lot of precedent for this in traditional, American powerlifting. Marty Gallagher is a great example: for bench press, we would often do dumbbell BP to start, with a much larger ROM than an actual BP, and with the first weights, exhale and feel the stretch before we'd inhale and press the dumbbells back up. As the weights got heavier, the ROM decreased, the breathing changed, and eventually when moving to a heavy bar, the same idea. Because you can get a bigger ROM with dumbbells, that's often the way we'd start, but exhaling with the bar on your chest with a light weight, then pressurizing and pressing is also a good technique to practice.

-S-
 
Goblet squat is a mobility drill. Wide stance, stop at parallel is a competition squat where you're trying to move the most weight. Two different things.


Your newfound range of motion doesn't need to be used in your competition lifts (unless, of course, you need it there).

This all goes back to the "move in a lot of ways but don't load them all" idea. My personal favorite way to squat with a barbell is to use a light enough weight that I can get really deep, exhale, and then repressurize to come up. But if I'm training for a 3-lift meet, I'll warmup that way and then, as the weights get heavier, my breathing changes, my stance chances, and my depth changes. Right tool for the job at hand and all that.

-S-

Yes. If it isnt obvious, what's changed in my squat is the height of the stretch reflex. I'm now able to load that spring at parallel, and explode out of the hole. Before, that stretch would occur deep below parallel so I wouldnt really get much advantage if my ROM was only parallel (or slightly below).

Regards,

Eric
 
Your newfound range of motion doesn't need to be used in your competition lifts (unless, of course, you need it there).

It does if I want to have a chance of winning.

Being able to squat clean 2" lower means I can clean a heavier weight, as long as I can build up the strength to get out of the deeper hole.
 
I forgot you’re an Olympic lifter. Deep FSQ is all good; you’ll get used to the increased ROM; ignore advice from powerlifters :)

-S-
 
I forgot you’re an Olympic lifter. Deep FSQ is all good; you’ll get used to the increased ROM; ignore advice from powerlifters :)

-S-

No worries, we're all cousins.

In an unexpected move, my coach said to lay off clean pulls for 4 weeks and do some Sumo deadlifts to provide extra assistance to the FSQ.

I've never gone Sumo before, so this will be interesting....
 
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