Kettlebell Big difference between get-up and swing weights?

[Smile-n-Nod]

If you perform swings and get-ups, do you use very different weights for those actions (e.g., 32-kg swings and 12-kg get-ups, or vice versa)? If so, why?

(I have a large torso and bulky, but not strong, muscles, so I carry a lot of useless weight. This makes get-ups much harder for me than swings.)

 

[North Coast Miller]

I had worked up to 40kg getups when I was still using 50lbs for my 1H swings. Pat of that is my wrists being not so good, so took a few to increase weights on the swings. Also, I enjoy longer sets of swings - I don't really feel it in my glutes till I get close to 20 reps no matter what weight I'm using.

I'd guess things eventually even out if you work at, but certainly different body comp/proportions etc will all have an effect on what you do and how much, and when for that matter - I can't safely do TGU with 40kg currently.

 

[Sean M]

When I was working up to Simple I kept with the same weight, but it just took more time for the getups to progress - both in introducing the weight and in compressing the rest periods.

Although I did “wave the load” with getups for a phase of my journey to Simple, using the template in this article: How to Properly Program the Get-up for 3 Different Goals | StrongFirst For me it was 4 x 2/2 @ 16, 5 x 1/1 @ 24, and 2-3 x 1 @ 32.

I think one should try to progress the same weight at the same time generally.

 

[StanStan]

If you perform swings and get-ups, do you use very different weights for those actions (e.g., 32-kg swings and 12-kg get-ups, or vice versa)? If so, why?

(I have a large torso and heavy, but not strong, muscles, so I carry a lot of useless weight. This makes get-ups much harder for me than swings.)

For a good while, I was 1H swinging 32 kg and TGUing 24 kg. Long thin arms. Now, using 40 and 36/40.

 

[Hung]

my get up progressed much quicker than my swing. i used 30 kg bell for the get up while my swing weight was 25kg- and it stucked there for a long long time
now i can comfortable oa swing the 36 bell. i fixed my swing technique and voila, the weight was getting lighter and lighter

 

[masa]

My weights progressed hand in hand with both lifts.

 

[Sauli]

Well, naturally your hips and grip should be stronger than your shoulders. Basically swings should be stronger exercise. There plenty of guys who's getup is stronger. It's kinda "wrong", but it's usual.

 

[Oscar]

Well, naturally your hips and grip should be stronger than your shoulders. Basically swings should be stronger exercise. There plenty of guys who's getup is stronger. It's kinda "wrong", but it's usual.

I don't think this is the case. Actually, the shoulders are not the prime movers of the weight in the get up. They only stabilize, the weight is pushed up by other big muscles supported by the bone structure and shoulder stabilizers. The shoulder muscles only participate as prime movers during the floor press.
In my case they are progressing similarly, the get up a bit faster.

 

[Im out]

Well, naturally your hips and grip should be stronger than your shoulders. Basically swings should be stronger exercise. There plenty of guys who's getup is stronger. It's kinda "wrong", but it's usual.

You are wrong.

@Smile-n-Nod
When i was on S&S my Get Ups advanced much faster than my swings. Issue was mainly sweaty hands, mine are naturally more sweaty and relatively small so the bell would slip. Using gloves or chalk helps, but could be considered cheating. Anyway I've always been more of an anaerobic guy. I've always been (relatively) ''Strong'' According to others I mean.

 

[Steve Freides]

@Sauli, I add my voice to the chorus of disagreement - what you do with each weight is just that. As I mentioned in another thread recently, after having not done getups for a long time because of knee issues, I've finally found a getup modification that works for me, and I'm doing 2-arm swings with a 44 kg and getups with a 10 kg. It is what it is.

-S-

 

[Martine Kerr]

Well, naturally your hips and grip should be stronger than your shoulders. Basically swings should be stronger exercise. There plenty of guys who's getup is stronger. It's kinda "wrong", but it's usual.

My Get Up (currently 24kg) has usually been stronger than my 1H Swing (20kg) - except for my first year training them. Given that I have grip issues in both small hands, I'm happy to expect my gets up to get stronger, and 1H swings remain consistent or only slightly improve. I'm perfectly OK with being "wrong."

 

[Milan Hrubý]

Yesterday I did 3 Get Ups with 48 kg (+ 2 Get Ups with 44 kg) but I still struggle to do 100 1H swings with 32 kg. Definitely I am not happy about that...

 

[Maine-ah KB]

my 1 handed swings are generally 4-8kg heaver then my TGU. I can swing a 40kg for sets of 10 (with sufficient rest between) but TGU is at 36.

 

[Mercury]

Currently doing 32kg TGU and finding them relatively easy. 1H swings with the 24kg are a struggle even for low reps.

 

[masa]

I must agree with @Sauli that if your grip and hips give up before shoulders, then there's something wrong. This has nothing to do with swings and getups, but in general.

 

[Chrisdavisjr]

From my experience, grip is more of a limiting factor when it comes to swings than the hips. Grip strength doesn't really factory into the successful execution of a get-up.

Those with larger hands and/or a stronger grip will probably make faster progress in swings than get-ups.

 

[Shahaf Levin]

I do agree that (to some extent) hips drive and grip should not gives up before shoulders, but I don't think these are comparable with the load of swings and TGU.

For start, as mentioned before in the thread, in TGU shoulders are stabilizers and not drivers. Since stabilization requires only very small part of the muscles strength (depending on pattern and the literature I remember something around 7-15%, not sure) one should be able to support way more than he can lift in a given pattern.

Second is the difference in lift tension "class". While I assume we all agree that the hip hinge pattern should be stronger than the push/press pattern I think we can only compare actual load numbers when the patterns share tension class. In a ballistic/quick lift (for me these are lifts with rapid change between high tension and relaxation levels) the force put into/drawn from the ground is much more that the actual load. I think we all can agree that a 24kg KB swing generates more than 24kg-force of tension. In support lifts (TGU in our case) you put into the ground a force equal to the load, or at least not much greater.

I do think that that is lifts can be compared within a pattern class or tension class. If some one can swing (ballistic) more than he can deadlift (grind) I think it should be looked at. Same if one can deadlift more than he can do in the hands & thighs lift (support) (comparing within a movement pattern). If one can jerk (squat & press) more than swing (hinge) I would look at it as well.

TGU and swing are both different in movement patterns (although TGU has them all) and in tension class so I personally would not use them to compare loads.

* If someone know a more suitable replacement for tension class plead let me know, feels like I am missing an obvious one...

 

[Sauli]

I knew that someone will disagree. Well basically my statement was in general sense: hips are stronger than shoulders.
@Rif does very heavy swings.. no one does get ups with that kinda weights, but most of us have potential to go heavy with swings. Much heavier than get ups. This is my opinion. Feel free to disagree.

 

[The Nail]

If you perform swings and get-ups, do you use very different weights for those actions (e.g., 32-kg swings and 12-kg get-ups, or vice versa)? If so, why?

When I was running S&S, I would hold the strongest lift back until the strong lift caught up. The OHS and TGU are symbiotic. I played around with using different weights for them, but it never worked right to have them too far out of sync. One of them being stronger than the other meant I had issues to take care of.

Disclaimer: I was rather obsessed with squat/bench/deadlift for years before S&S, so I already had a base of strength. The conditioning required for S&S is what challenged me.

 

[Sauli]

I don't think this is the case. Actually, the shoulders are not the prime movers of the weight in the get up. They only stabilize, the weight is pushed up by other big muscles supported by the bone structure and shoulder stabilizers. The shoulder muscles only participate as prime movers during the floor press.
In my case they are progressing similarly, the get up a bit faster.

I agree with you that shoulders ain't prime movers naturally, but shoulders are still limiting factor.
You cannot get up the weight you cannot hold overhead.