Barbell Big volumes and WSBB

[Kenny Croxdale]

More like go, walk back, go, walk back

That amount to Cluster Set Training or Sets.

Repetitive Repetition in a set are non-stop.

Any exercise in which even a minor pause is taken between repetition is Cluster Set Training.

Kenny Croxdale

 

[Deleted member 5559]

Any exercise in which even a minor pause is taken between repetition is Cluster Set Training.

Sure, but it's one giant cluster with no extended breaks making it a cluster set of let's say 1x1/50 instead of 10x 1/5 and fatigue sets in after the first half dozen and then everything after that suffers. Even clusters need inter set rest in addition to the intra set rest.

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

Any exercise in which even a minor pause is taken between repetition is Cluster Set Training.

Sure, but it's one giant cluster with no extended breaks making it a cluster set of let's say 1x1/50 instead of 10x 1/5 and fatigue sets in after the first half dozen and then everything after that suffers. Even clusters need inter set rest in addition to the intra set rest.

It's unlikely the isn't Custer Set Training. I thought about elaborating more in my reply but opted for a shorter response, which I now regret.

Cluster Sets

The rest periods between Cluster Set is between 10 to 45 seconds, one minute maximum.

By definition Cluster Sets are composed of short Intra Rest Period between a repetition or set of repetition, with Inter Rest Period Sets; rest periods between Set of Cluster Set.

Muscle ATP Restoration

As you know, Cluster Sets allow Muscle ATP Restoration. Research indicates that up to 50% is restored in approximately 30%. Dr Greg Haff found that just under 80% was restored in approximately 45 seconds.

It is unlikely that someone practicing the Pole Vault, High Jump, Long Jump, etc watching the clock and performing them with rest periods that short for 1 X (50/1): 1 Cluster Set X 50 Clusters X 1 Repetition Each.

The reality is the they are performing...

Traditional Sets

Most are taking rest periods between Vaults and Jumps al are longer than one minute. Taking longer rest period allows for more complete recovery.

Research shows that approximately 3 minute or longer is required for Muscle ATP Restoration. That means, longer rest periods ensure greater force production.

Inadvertent Cluster Set Training

Ironically, the majority of individuals who resistance training unknowingly are performing Cluster Sets with Limit Strength and Hypertrophy Training.

At some point in a repetition set, when they run out of gas, they take short pauses between repetitions Doing so, means they have turned a Traditional Exercise Set into a Cluster Set.

It slightly evokes a different training response; modifying the intended objective and outcome.

Muscle Fatigue And Technique

Yes, as you noted, once muscle fatigue sets in good technique/skill is altered, promoting poor technique.

What it does in make a lifter more comfortable at performing the movement wrong.

It take time and persistent practice in performing the movement correctly to develop technique and most importantly to maintain it.

Assembling Something Incorrectly Analogy

Once poor technique is developed it takes even more time to de-program and re-program good technique. I have personally experienced it myself and in working with other.

It amount to putting something together incorrectly. It requires additional time and patients to take it apart and then assemble it correctly. As the saying goes...

"If You Don't Have Time to Do It Right, When Will You Have Time to Do It Over?"

With that in mind, let me hammer this point home again.

1) Performing the Competition Powerlifts as Training Exercises develops Limit Strength at the expense of Technique.

2) The key to increasing Limit Strength in the Competition Powerlifts is accomplished with Auxiliary Exercises that are similar in nature to the Competition Powerlifts.

Auxiliary Exercise are somewhat "Disposable", in reality they are "Recyclable".

They should be pushed to the failure or near failure in a Training Cycle. Then that particular Auxiliary Exercise is discarded and replaced with another Auxiliary Exercise that is similar the Competition Powerlift.

 

[Timo Keskitalo]

I'd like to wrap this up somehow but this went pretty deep in details.

I started them simultaneously. My plan is to keep DE bench and DE deadlift as first exercises until the multi sets start.

It could be better to do the multi sets with rather big jumps and start low so you'd get some easier weeks. A traditional periodization. This would result in 4-5 weeks for certain reps.

This is temporary. Afterwards back to normal WSBB training. It just feels like I don't quite get stronger with DE workouts. I have done that since week 31, but I have had lots of distractions to training.

Anyway, the idea was to take a short break from normal routine. But this takes a rather long time and I'd like to be sure that it's worth it.

 

[Deleted member 5559]

It just feels like I don't quite get stronger with DE workouts.

I've heard Matt Wenning and Mark Bell both talk about not seeing much benefit from DE with most athletes.

Something like the Texas method is probably a better way to train contrasting intensity for most of us.

 

[Timo Keskitalo]

Something like the Texas method is probably a better way to train contrasting intensity for most of us.

Ok I'll have to look that up.

I'm not giving up yet on WSBB though. Like I said my training has not been consistent.

 

[westsider19]

@Timo Keskitalo
Louie's bench program that you inquired about was passed down to him from Bill Seno. It replaces dynamic upper (not after) and is not used before a meet. I know it holds a special place in Louie's heart because it came from Bill and because Louie's bench grew tremendously during that time. But it's basically just an implementation of the repetition method, as a temporary alternative to dynamic when your speed is good or your offseason is long.

I would caution against modifying Westside and review your training to see where/if it differs from the principles. Make small tweaks to try to better adhere to those principles, not tweaks that get you away from them.

 

[Timo Keskitalo]

@westsider19 Yeah I figured it was a nice build up for big reps. I was doing ok with wide grip bench after speed bench and squat after speed pulls. I dropped speed squats. Wide bench because I did speed bench with narrow to medium (=rings on outside of palm) grip. 3 hard weeks: 3-4 sets to max/near max, then a lighter week with bigger reps and finding new rep max. I did an eight with my max 6. Then I broke my toe and corona broke the world. I've been running after I could do so.

I was going to drop speed workouts when starting 6x6. It felt good, I'll probably do it again when I start training at the gym. I want to find out if I can squat 100 reps for a few weeks.