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Programming Improv Block Training Thread

UPDATE TIME!!!
Today was test day and boy was I nervous for the past few days. Not for the whole test, just for the AMRAP DCJ. I gave myself a lot of time for testing; did a set of snatches, took a chunk of time doing whatever then did the other side, took a longer chunk of time doing whatever then did DCJ, then took an even longer chunk of time and tested the rest of the lifts.

Quick version of my program (see the first post from my log if you want the longer version): alternated 3 week blocks of Kb Snatches or Kb Double Clean and Jerks. Also did various loaded carries at the end of each workout. Sometimes did other stuff on variety days. Whole program was about 25/26 weeks long from pretest to posttest (yes, that’s half a year). First Sn block was with a 24k, last Sn block was with a 32k; first DCJ block was with D24k, remaining DCJ blocks were with D32k.

Throughout this program I was also focusing on weight loss via paying more attention to what I ate (Precision Nutrition style) and maintaining a higher average step count each day than I used to (at least about 7k). There were also numerous life events that occurred that negatively impacted recovery (mostly good things but they effected my sleep quality/quantity).

Test Results Sun, 11/06/22
Kb Snatch = 32k x 8 but shoulder clunked more than I wanted, tested again at very end of session with 24k and will be using that even though I can get more than 8 reps with it because I want to make sure the shoulder is good even when fatigued
Kb DCJ = not tested because going in to KSK block; will test when going in to LCOD block [TESTED LATER DATE: D32k = 7RM]
ZS = 275# 1RM (too heavy for the double)
Pullup = 16# estimated 1RM (from 2RM)
OAP = 42k estimated 1RM (from 2RM)
DL = 385# estimated 1RM (from 2RM)
Test Results Mon 3/20/23
Kb Snatch = 32k x 20 each side; +12/+150%
Kb Double Clean & Jerk
= D32k x 13; +6/+86%
Zercher Squat
= 267.5# estimated 1RM (from 2RM); -7.5#/-2.7%
Pullup
= 40# estimated 1RM (from 2RM); +24#/+150%
Kb One Arm Press
= 38k estimated 1RM (from 3RM); -4k/-9.5%
Deadlift
= 362.25# estimated 1RM (from 2RM); -22.75#/-5.9%
(Bodyweight: lost about 15#)

Notes on specific tests:
Kb Sn: Right shoulder had some clunking but nothing that was concerning and way better than used to be.
Kb DCJ: AMRAPing these is the absolute worst. I hate it with the passion of a thousand fiery suns. My RPE is through the roof, for the last few reps, all that exists is my heart jack-hammering away in my chest, a need for oxygen that breathing can’t satiate no matter how hard I failingly try to control my respirations, and tingling that goes down my arms into my fingertips from working so hard.
ZS: Barely did any squatting throughout this whole program except the warmup Goblet Squat + Bicep Curls, so to have this only decrease by a few pounds over half a year is fantastic.
Pullup: Barely did any pullups during this program; this improvement is super cool
OAP: Disappointed but again, didn’t really do much pressing except a few reps in the warmup. Felt like I lost the ability to handle heavy unilateral load compared to a couple years ago when I was very focused on chasing my OAP
DL: Disappointed but never touched weights even remotely close to this during the program so very happy that this is what I had after half a year away from the barbell.

General thoughts on/lessons learned from program
-Overall impression: this was a successful program and a very positive experience. The lifts I trained made significant progress, the lifts I didn’t either improved or at least didn’t fall off a cliff
-I subjectively felt good doing non-lifting activities like rolling and sparring.\
-I really like block training. Can’t say for sure it’s more or less effective than some other periodization scheme, but that’s irrelevant; I like it and it’s good enough to make progress. I enjoy having the luxury of not being a strength/power athlete where every ounce on the bar matters and there’s a perpetual fear that the biological clock is ticking so if you‘re gaining slower than you could’ve you’re losing. I enjoy training BJJ/KBox/MMA fighters and firefighters who also have that same luxury.
-Block training gives me an option for scratching the program-hopping itch. This helps me when I think about all the things I want to improve, and this will help my athletes who might not know a good program requires consistency and will get bored with the same exercises. There’re two types of program hoppers: 1) people who want to chase multiple rabbits, and 2) people who get bored with consistency and don’t know a program needs that to do more than just make you sweaty. I am #1; during a program I am very good about staying focused on the lifts and not changing up what I’m doing, but I have a lot of stuff I want to improve/maintain and worry whenever I’m making a program, “what about this thing and what about that thing?” #2 is a lot of my athletes who even though they are in physical jobs/hobbies, and even though they might have worked out for years, they don’t actually know what quality programming looks like so they get bored when they experience it. Block training takes care of both sources of program-hopping.

Next Steps
Take a bit of time off from lifting, maybe do a transition block with mobility, swings, and various getups, and figure out what I want to focus on for the next program. I’ll initially leaning towards using PlanStrong because I need to practice writing more of those programs and I want to test out my application of the system, but we’ll see.
 
Amazing work, and a style of programming I’ll definitely get to in the future - I, too, get that itch of wanting to improve many things at once without the actual training time to do so. Cycling stuff every three weeks let’s you have double the movements without needing to wait months between which sounds good.

Also, although your E1RM went down in some lifts, I bet if you practiced that lift again for a 3 week block you’d be stronger on it after putting all of that strength on your snatch/DCJ. Maybe it’s just the practice of the lift that is missing rather than the strength?
 
UPDATE TIME!!!
Today was test day and boy was I nervous for the past few days. Not for the whole test, just for the AMRAP DCJ. I gave myself a lot of time for testing; did a set of snatches, took a chunk of time doing whatever then did the other side, took a longer chunk of time doing whatever then did DCJ, then took an even longer chunk of time and tested the rest of the lifts.

Quick version of my program (see the first post from my log if you want the longer version): alternated 3 week blocks of Kb Snatches or Kb Double Clean and Jerks. Also did various loaded carries at the end of each workout. Sometimes did other stuff on variety days. Whole program was about 25/26 weeks long from pretest to posttest (yes, that’s half a year). First Sn block was with a 24k, last Sn block was with a 32k; first DCJ block was with D24k, remaining DCJ blocks were with D32k.

Throughout this program I was also focusing on weight loss via paying more attention to what I ate (Precision Nutrition style) and maintaining a higher average step count each day than I used to (at least about 7k). There were also numerous life events that occurred that negatively impacted recovery (mostly good things but they effected my sleep quality/quantity).


Test Results Mon 3/20/23
Kb Snatch = 32k x 20 each side; +12/+150%
Kb Double Clean & Jerk
= D32k x 13; +6/+86%
Zercher Squat
= 267.5# estimated 1RM (from 2RM); -7.5#/-2.7%
Pullup
= 40# estimated 1RM (from 2RM); +24#/+150%
Kb One Arm Press
= 38k estimated 1RM (from 3RM); -4k/-9.5%
Deadlift
= 362.25# estimated 1RM (from 2RM); -22.75#/-5.9%
(Bodyweight: lost about 15#)

Notes on specific tests:
Kb Sn: Right shoulder had some clunking but nothing that was concerning and way better than used to be.
Kb DCJ: AMRAPing these is the absolute worst. I hate it with the passion of a thousand fiery suns. My RPE is through the roof, for the last few reps, all that exists is my heart jack-hammering away in my chest, a need for oxygen that breathing can’t satiate no matter how hard I failingly try to control my respirations, and tingling that goes down my arms into my fingertips from working so hard.
ZS: Barely did any squatting throughout this whole program except the warmup Goblet Squat + Bicep Curls, so to have this only decrease by a few pounds over half a year is fantastic.
Pullup: Barely did any pullups during this program; this improvement is super cool
OAP: Disappointed but again, didn’t really do much pressing except a few reps in the warmup. Felt like I lost the ability to handle heavy unilateral load compared to a couple years ago when I was very focused on chasing my OAP
DL: Disappointed but never touched weights even remotely close to this during the program so very happy that this is what I had after half a year away from the barbell.

General thoughts on/lessons learned from program
-Overall impression: this was a successful program and a very positive experience. The lifts I trained made significant progress, the lifts I didn’t either improved or at least didn’t fall off a cliff
-I subjectively felt good doing non-lifting activities like rolling and sparring.\
-I really like block training. Can’t say for sure it’s more or less effective than some other periodization scheme, but that’s irrelevant; I like it and it’s good enough to make progress. I enjoy having the luxury of not being a strength/power athlete where every ounce on the bar matters and there’s a perpetual fear that the biological clock is ticking so if you‘re gaining slower than you could’ve you’re losing. I enjoy training BJJ/KBox/MMA fighters and firefighters who also have that same luxury.
-Block training gives me an option for scratching the program-hopping itch. This helps me when I think about all the things I want to improve, and this will help my athletes who might not know a good program requires consistency and will get bored with the same exercises. There’re two types of program hoppers: 1) people who want to chase multiple rabbits, and 2) people who get bored with consistency and don’t know a program needs that to do more than just make you sweaty. I am #1; during a program I am very good about staying focused on the lifts and not changing up what I’m doing, but I have a lot of stuff I want to improve/maintain and worry whenever I’m making a program, “what about this thing and what about that thing?” #2 is a lot of my athletes who even though they are in physical jobs/hobbies, and even though they might have worked out for years, they don’t actually know what quality programming looks like so they get bored when they experience it. Block training takes care of both sources of program-hopping.

Next Steps
Take a bit of time off from lifting, maybe do a transition block with mobility, swings, and various getups, and figure out what I want to focus on for the next program. I’ll initially leaning towards using PlanStrong because I need to practice writing more of those programs and I want to test out my application of the system, but we’ll see.
Sam, thank you for the thorough report! Very valuable to see actual before-after tests being done.

Yeah, AMRAP with LCCJ is hard. You can go much longer than you want to, with the load being so spread out.

I think @SUOMI-PUKU 's thought is quite interesting, and one that is hard to factor in when testing RMs. For example, some people report that their ability to do higher reps sets decreases after months of A+A. But this might come back really quick. So the real test might be in, say, session five after switching to a different training style.

Anyway, great work!
 
UPDATE TIME!!!
Today was test day and boy was I nervous for the past few days. Not for the whole test, just for the AMRAP DCJ. I gave myself a lot of time for testing; did a set of snatches, took a chunk of time doing whatever then did the other side, took a longer chunk of time doing whatever then did DCJ, then took an even longer chunk of time and tested the rest of the lifts.

Quick version of my program (see the first post from my log if you want the longer version): alternated 3 week blocks of Kb Snatches or Kb Double Clean and Jerks. Also did various loaded carries at the end of each workout. Sometimes did other stuff on variety days. Whole program was about 25/26 weeks long from pretest to posttest (yes, that’s half a year). First Sn block was with a 24k, last Sn block was with a 32k; first DCJ block was with D24k, remaining DCJ blocks were with D32k.

Throughout this program I was also focusing on weight loss via paying more attention to what I ate (Precision Nutrition style) and maintaining a higher average step count each day than I used to (at least about 7k). There were also numerous life events that occurred that negatively impacted recovery (mostly good things but they effected my sleep quality/quantity).


Test Results Mon 3/20/23
Kb Snatch = 32k x 20 each side; +12/+150%
Kb Double Clean & Jerk
= D32k x 13; +6/+86%
Zercher Squat
= 267.5# estimated 1RM (from 2RM); -7.5#/-2.7%
Pullup
= 40# estimated 1RM (from 2RM); +24#/+150%
Kb One Arm Press
= 38k estimated 1RM (from 3RM); -4k/-9.5%
Deadlift
= 362.25# estimated 1RM (from 2RM); -22.75#/-5.9%
(Bodyweight: lost about 15#)

Notes on specific tests:
Kb Sn: Right shoulder had some clunking but nothing that was concerning and way better than used to be.
Kb DCJ: AMRAPing these is the absolute worst. I hate it with the passion of a thousand fiery suns. My RPE is through the roof, for the last few reps, all that exists is my heart jack-hammering away in my chest, a need for oxygen that breathing can’t satiate no matter how hard I failingly try to control my respirations, and tingling that goes down my arms into my fingertips from working so hard.
ZS: Barely did any squatting throughout this whole program except the warmup Goblet Squat + Bicep Curls, so to have this only decrease by a few pounds over half a year is fantastic.
Pullup: Barely did any pullups during this program; this improvement is super cool
OAP: Disappointed but again, didn’t really do much pressing except a few reps in the warmup. Felt like I lost the ability to handle heavy unilateral load compared to a couple years ago when I was very focused on chasing my OAP
DL: Disappointed but never touched weights even remotely close to this during the program so very happy that this is what I had after half a year away from the barbell.

General thoughts on/lessons learned from program
-Overall impression: this was a successful program and a very positive experience. The lifts I trained made significant progress, the lifts I didn’t either improved or at least didn’t fall off a cliff
-I subjectively felt good doing non-lifting activities like rolling and sparring.\
-I really like block training. Can’t say for sure it’s more or less effective than some other periodization scheme, but that’s irrelevant; I like it and it’s good enough to make progress. I enjoy having the luxury of not being a strength/power athlete where every ounce on the bar matters and there’s a perpetual fear that the biological clock is ticking so if you‘re gaining slower than you could’ve you’re losing. I enjoy training BJJ/KBox/MMA fighters and firefighters who also have that same luxury.
-Block training gives me an option for scratching the program-hopping itch. This helps me when I think about all the things I want to improve, and this will help my athletes who might not know a good program requires consistency and will get bored with the same exercises. There’re two types of program hoppers: 1) people who want to chase multiple rabbits, and 2) people who get bored with consistency and don’t know a program needs that to do more than just make you sweaty. I am #1; during a program I am very good about staying focused on the lifts and not changing up what I’m doing, but I have a lot of stuff I want to improve/maintain and worry whenever I’m making a program, “what about this thing and what about that thing?” #2 is a lot of my athletes who even though they are in physical jobs/hobbies, and even though they might have worked out for years, they don’t actually know what quality programming looks like so they get bored when they experience it. Block training takes care of both sources of program-hopping.

Next Steps
Take a bit of time off from lifting, maybe do a transition block with mobility, swings, and various getups, and figure out what I want to focus on for the next program. I’ll initially leaning towards using PlanStrong because I need to practice writing more of those programs and I want to test out my application of the system, but we’ll see.
Thanks for sharing. I can only imagine what those 13 reps were like!

I'd be interested to know your DL:BW ratio.

I don't think you quoted your weight, just that you dropped 15 lb. 22.75 lb off DL is close to 1:1.5.

Therefore I'd estimate you're actually stronger in relative terms.
 
Also, although your E1RM went down in some lifts, I bet if you practiced that lift again for a 3 week block you’d be stronger on it after putting all of that strength on your snatch/DCJ. Maybe it’s just the practice of the lift that is missing rather than the strength?
That’s a good idea. I haven’t decided what I’m going to do yet, but cycling a barbell block with a kettlebell block has some appeal.
 
Thanks for sharing. I can only imagine what those 13 reps were like!

I'd be interested to know your DL:BW ratio.

I don't think you quoted your weight, just that you dropped 15 lb. 22.75 lb off DL is close to 1:1.5.

Therefore I'd estimate you're actually stronger in relative terms.
I was probably about 210#ish when my DL was 385#.
I’m now about 195#ish with the 365.25# deadlift.

385/210 = 1.83xBW
365.25/195 = 1.87xBW

Hey! You’re right! Thanks for prompting me to do that math.

EDIT: I did the math again for the ZS and the OAP; ZS improved a little like the DL, OAP decreased a little.
 
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Great job, Sam.

How does the mirror test look? Judging by the above, I’d have to assume your BF% had to decrease with all the ballistics and man sized weights slung.

Many will advise that you can’t add muscle with snatches and C&J as you could with DL’s and Presses. What say you having had this experience? I’m very interested in this question as Pavel references people accidentally packing on muscle when focusing on the C and J yet many argue the opposite.
 
Great job, Sam.

How does the mirror test look? Judging by the above, I’d have to assume your BF% had to decrease with all the ballistics and man sized weights slung.
Mirror test looks about the same, but I got a bunch of compliments from other people. I saw myself everyday so it‘s hard to know, but I think there was some improvement, and apparently other people noticed improvement.
Many will advise that you can’t add muscle with snatches and C&J as you could with DL’s and Presses. What say you having had this experience? I’m very interested in this question as Pavel references people accidentally packing on muscle when focusing on the C and J yet many argue the opposite.
I think I look better and my clothes fit better, but I don’t know if I added muscle. Having gone through this, though, I have no trouble believing it can be done. Just think about time under tension for the DCJ; if it takes about 4-5 seconds per rep, and you do even 30 reps, thats 2+ minutes of TUT. Snatch is faster, but it’s still an intense contraction for each rep.
 
Hi everyone,

I am 7 weeks into an 8-week cycle BuiltStrong Minimalist cycle. Next week I will test my TRMs and will experiment with a new block training phase. My current idea:
  • Alternating two-week blocks for the lower body and upper body pulling:
    • Block A) KBSF Swings and some lower volume ab work
    • Block B) Front Squats and upper body pull
  • At the same time I want to train my Double KB Military Press during both blocks, first focusing on an experimental BuiltStrong style plan that I am working on with Fabio Zonin, based on his newsletter BTS version. I will probably try a sightly different progamming variation during the last 6 weeks of my experiment.
I want to do this for at least 3 months, comprised of
  • one 6-week cycle for Swings, ab work, Front Squats and Gorilla Rows, and
  • two 6-week cycles of pressing, starting with a 10TRM weight in the first 6-week pressing cycle.
My goals are to build muscle and strength with my grinds, and improve my conditioning again with Swings. Overall my main focus is my pressing strength. I will try to continue with 2-3 sessions of aerobic training during all phases.

I will keep you posted every now and then.
 
Here's a block I came up with in late April and I plan to run it until September before I switch to a Quick and Dead 044 cycle until the year ends. These are two week blocks.

Block 1:

Session A:

Deadlift 5,3,2 (or similar Rule of 10 Set x Rep Scheme)
Bench: Faleev 5x5

Session B:

Squat: Faleev 5x5
Bench: 5x4 @ 80% Session A

Block 2:

Session A:

Power Clean: 5-6 Singles (3 or so heavy reps)
Bench: Faleev 5x5

Session B:

Power Snatch: 5-6 Singles (3 or so heavy reps)
Front Squat: 8x3

This article inspired the blocks above:

 
Hey just saw this thread mentioned elsewhere... very happy to have a home.

I do a watered-down version of pretty much everything.
I just finished Giant 1.0 and wanted to take a break before going to 1.1. Also, I wasn't satisfied with the ballistic side of the C&P.

So, I'm doing a 2 week block of A&A 2H swings, just 5*20 OTM, then going back to Giant.

So far, I'm happy with my choice. My hope is that I'll be able to cycle through this for at least a year until I get my press up to the weight I want.
 
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