Barbell Bodybuilding and strength carryover

[Simply strong]

This forum is typically more geared towards strength, but I have questions about this approach. My sport involves lots of explosive heavy throwing and heavy overhead lifting. This leaves me generally fatigued and after training the idea of doing heavy strength work with a barbell or kettlebell is quite daunting (I train daily so no option of designating a day for just gym work).

How successful would an approach would it be to class my sporting activities as my “main lifts” and make a gym program that consists only of bodybuilding accessories that are generally less fatiguing.

A bigger muscle is a stronger muscle after all?

 

[Philippe Geoffrion]

Just out of curiosity. What sport is it you do?

 

[Steve A]

Why do you think you need to do much strength work, heavy or otherwise?

 

[Chrisdavisjr]

@Simply strong While I can see the logic behind your proposed approach, I would suggest that bodybuilding style accessory work could prove just as fatiguing, if not more so, than any compound strength movements, especially if trained at the kind of volume bodybuilders train at.

A properly implemented strength program for an athlete should involve the minimum effective volume necessary to trigger adaptation. A few low-rep (<5) sets of any strength exercise should not beat you up too much. 'Strong' is a relative term and, when it comes to sport, 'strong enough' is strong enough; you don't need to be handling the kinds of loads that powerlifters or Olympic weightlifters throw around.

It's all too easy to get caught up in the pursuit of strength for strength's sake and wipe yourself out chasing 400lb+ deadlifts, squats etc. but if you keep your focus on your sport and keep your workouts short and just heavy enough, you'll reap great benefits with minimal sacrifice.

Easy Strength would be a book to check out. It outlines precisely how strength training can be implemented when strength is required but is not the sole focus.

I'm also intrigued as to what sport you do. If lifting heavy weights is already a part of your sport then it's entirely possible that additional strength work isn't necessary.

 

[Hung]

. A few low-rep (<5) sets of any strength exercise should not beat you up too much

I doubt that, if he had already done many low reps practice. In that case higher reps, done with moderate weight would be more benefit.

For the OP, please describe what's your idea about bodybuilding work? Serious bodybuilding work is hard, including both heavy weight, low reps, moderate weight with moderate reps and low weight, high reps

 

[scilla]

Simply strong, you might find a collection of posts on Dan John's Q and A forum, under the title Bodybuilding and Olimpic lifting

 

[Chrisdavisjr]

I doubt that, if he had already done many low reps practice. In that case higher reps, done with moderate weight would be more benefit.

You could be right: If the act of practising the sport is sufficient to build strength, then some carefully-selected bodybuilding type add-on exercises could be of more use; if more strength is required to meet the demands of the activity, a certain amount of additional strength training would be beneficial.

Both types of training can generate sufficient fatigue to have an impact on sports performance and if accessory exercises are selected to work on specific deficiencies in certain areas, then programming must be carefully implemented to avoid excessivly fatiguing areas that are already having a detrimental impact on sports performance.

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

How successful would an approach would it be to class my sporting activities as my “main lifts” and make a gym program that consists only of bodybuilding accessories that are generally less fatiguing.

Bodybuilding Accessories Less Fatiguing?

It depends on the intensity of the Bodybuilding Accessories and how they are preformed.

Preforming them with light to moderate loads...

1) Ensure they are "Less Fatiguing".

2) Promotes Active Recovery

Light to moderate loads increase blood flow the the muscles.

The circulatory system...

a) Delivers nutrients to the muscles, promoting recovery.

b) Eliminates the metabolites; "Takes out the garbage" that training produces.

With that said, these training session are more about promoting recovery.

If the training sessions are too intensive, they eventually lead to overtraining.

Dr Jonathan Oliver's Hypertrophy Cluster Set Training

The objective of Oliver's was to find a Hypertrophy-Bodybuilding Method that increase muscle mass without decreasing Power and Strength.

When Hypertrophy-Bodybuilding Training is only performed, it comes at the expense of Power and Strength.

Oliver's research found that athletes were able to maintain and/or increase Power and Strength with Hypertrophy Cluster Set Training.

Custer Sets

Cluster Set are essentially Sets within a Set. Short rest periods (15 - 45 Seconds) are take between Repetitions. This allows ATP (Adenosine Triphosphate) restoration to the muscles. ATP is the gas the drive muscle contractions. Once depleted, Power and Strength drop like a rock.

Caveats of Cluster Sets

1) Light to Moderate Loads

2) Each Repetition performed explosively. Once Power drops, the set is terminated.

3) Clusters of around 2 Repetition perform, with a short rest before performing the next 2 Repetitions.

Thus, a Cluster Set of 10 Repetition is broken down into 5 Cluster of 2 Repetition.

Dr Michael Zourdos Research

Decades of anecdotal data, as well as research has demonstrated combining different types of Strength Training into the same program produces a...

Synergistic Effect

The sum is greater than its parts.

Think of it like adding 2 plus 2 and getting 5!

Conjugate Training

This means training various type of Strength in the same program.

Zourdos' research demonstrated that when Hypertrophy, Power and Maximum Strength were performed in the same program, they elicited a greater increase in Maximum Strength.

Ironically, this is the foundation of the Westside Powerlifting Program that has been around for almost 40 years.,

Olympic Lifter are the Poster Children for Conjugate Training; training Power and Maximum Strength in their program.

Asian Olympic Lifters now include Hypertrophy-Bodybuilding into their program.

Zourdos Weekly Program

Zourdos program involved full body training three day a week, as follows...

1) Monday: Hypertrophy Training

2) Wednesday: Power Training

3) Maximum Strength Training

The Reason For This Order

Zourdos determined that an Intensive Hypertrophy-Bodybuilding Day required more recovery time prior to Maximum Strength Training.

Thus, the Power Training Day with light to moderate loads was sandwiched in between Hypertrophy and Strength.

The Take Home Message

1) Incorporating various type of Strength Training into a program evokes a greater training effect.

2) How these different types of Strength Training are incorporated determines the effectiveness of the results.

A bigger muscle is a stronger muscle after all?

Bigger Muscles

The answer is Yes and No.

I admire how hard Bodybuilder train and the physiques they obtain.

However, as someone once said, "Bodybuilder look like Tarzan and lift like Jane".

That is due to the fact that Bodybuilding falls more into Endurance Training/Metabolic Conditioning; moderate to high repetition with short rest periods between sets. That if their is only geared to Hypertrophy Training in each session.

Summary

1) Hypertrophy-Bodybuilding Training can be an effective tool for Power and Maximum Strength Athletes, depending on how it is implemented.

2) Hypertrophy Cluster Set are something to consider. They ensure an increase in muscle mass and increase blood flow the the muscles, which promotes recovery.

Goldilocks

As with this fable, some experimentation is required to find out how to incorporate Strength Training into your Sports Program that ensures it elicits a positive training effect for you.

 

[Don Fairbanks]

If I was an athlete doing fatiguing 7 day a week sport specific heavy explosive training ( which I would not suggest ) I would not be adding any body building to the mix. I would be thinking of subtracting from current training and adding BB work.