Bodyweight + Free Weights -- Combined Progression?

watchnerd

Level 6 Valued Member
Every bodyweight routine I've seen seems to assume you're only doing body weight, and thus the progressions are aligned with this, usually to a 3 x a week routine in terms of volume.

But if I'm already doing barbell 2x a week, kettlebell 2x a week, how do I account for this in body weight progressions?

For example, if I'm doing 2 x overhead barbell press per week, and 2 x KB TGUs, how do I account for this in a handstand pushup progression (shoulders) scheme?
 

Deleted member 5559

Guest
Doing 2/3 of the volume of each one and instead of 2 days each of all three (6 days), doing all three the same day for two spaced out days has worked for me.
 

watchnerd

Level 6 Valued Member
Doing 2/3 of the volume of each one and instead of 2 days each of all three (6 days), doing all three the same day for two spaced out days has worked for me.
Doing it all in one day would make my workout like 2 hours long...I just can't spare that much time in one block, unfortunately.
 

Deleted member 5559

Guest
Perhaps break it up through the day? I'm fortunate that I could do one before work, another during my lunch break, and the third in the evening. Alternatively, you could do only two of the three each day. For example when training for triathlons, I would do 2 of the three on a day.
Day 1: Run & Swim
Day 2: Bike & Run
Day 3: Swim & Bike​
 

watchnerd

Level 6 Valued Member
Perhaps break it up through the day? I'm fortunate that I could do one before work, another during my lunch break, and the third in the evening. Alternatively, you could do only two of the three each day. For example when training for triathlons, I would do 2 of the three on a day.
Day 1: Run & Swim
Day 2: Bike & Run
Day 3: Swim & Bike​
I might be able to do mornings. Nothing mid day.

But I don't see what advantage that brings versus doing on different days. I'd still spend the same amount of time changing clothes, doing warmups, etc (i.e. 2 x 3 = 6 x 1).
 

Deleted member 5559

Guest
If doing less volume and only doing two things in the day, would that allow those two to be done in the same session?

Instead of full volume sessions like:
Day 1: Weightlifting (5/3/2 + 7/5/3)
Day 2: Kettlebell (10x10 + 10x1)
Day 3: Off
Day 4: Kettlebell (10x10 + 10x1)
Day 5: Off
Day 6: Weightlifting (5/3/2 + 7/5/3)
It would look like:
Day 1: Weightlifting (3/3 + 5/5) & Bodyweight (2/3 of program volume)
Day 2: Off
Day 3: Kettlebell (6x10 + 6x1) & Weightlifting (3/3 + 5/5)
Day 4: Off
Day 5: Bodywieight (2/3 of program volume) & Kettlebell (6x10 + 6x1)
Day 6: Off​
 

watchnerd

Level 6 Valued Member
So scheduling aside....

I'm wondering if it's logical to just calculate effective load and normalize accordingly tonnage accordingly.

Hypothetical example:

Push Up = 70% body weight

At 100kg bodyweight, each rep = 70 kg

So 3 x 8 pushups = 3 x 8@70kg = 1680 kg per workout

vs

100kg bench press 3 x 5@100kg = 1500 kg per workout

I realize the intensity isn't the same, but the volume should be approximately fungible, right?
 

Deleted member 5559

Guest
Instead of tonnage, I would consider Intensity Number of Lifts (INOL) as I've found that to be better at equivalencies.
 

Martin Joe

Level 7 Valued Member
"To much is the same as not enough"
- Miyamoto Musashi

I'm already doing barbell 2x a week, kettlebell 2x a week, how do I account for this in body weight progressions
Hi, @watchnerd
Instead of (trying) mastering Bodyweight, Barbell and Kettlebell ... look at it as lifts.

If you prefer a Full Body Routine:
Vertical Push : [ blank ]
Horizontal Push : [ blank ]
Vertical Pull : [ blank ]
Horizontal Pull : [ blank ]
Leg Push : [ blank ]
Leg Hinge : [ blank ]


Fill in the blanks (y)

It could look like this:
Vertical Push : bw dips
Horizontal Push : Bench Press
Vertical Pull : Pull-ups
Horizontal Pull : Ring Rows
Leg Push : Pistol Squat
Leg Hinge : Deadlift

Thats a lot of volume in ONE session so maybe you should consider doing it over 2 sessions - 2 days a week = 4 sessions.

/Martin Joe

OR ...

Cycle each for 12 weeks = 36 weeks (BW --> KB --> BL --> Repeat)

 

offwidth

Level 9 Valued Member
"To much is the same as not enough"
- Miyamoto Musashi



Hi, @watchnerd
Instead of (trying) mastering Bodyweight, Barbell and Kettlebell ... look at it as lifts.

If you prefer a Full Body Routine:
Vertical Push : [ blank ]
Horizontal Push : [ blank ]
Vertical Pull : [ blank ]
Horizontal Pull : [ blank ]
Leg Push : [ blank ]
Leg Hinge : [ blank ]


Fill in the blanks (y)

It could look like this:
Vertical Push : bw dips
Horizontal Push : Bench Press
Vertical Pull : Pull-ups
Horizontal Pull : Ring Rows
Leg Push : Pistol Squat
Leg Hinge : Deadlift

Thats a lot of volume in ONE session so maybe you should consider doing it over 2 sessions - 2 days a week = 4 sessions.

/Martin Joe

OR ...

Cycle each for 12 weeks = 36 weeks (BW --> KB --> BL --> Repeat)
"Too much of everything is just enough"
- Bob Weir / John Barlow
 

watchnerd

Level 6 Valued Member
"To much is the same as not enough"
- Miyamoto Musashi



Hi, @watchnerd
Instead of (trying) mastering Bodyweight, Barbell and Kettlebell ... look at it as lifts.

If you prefer a Full Body Routine:
Vertical Push : [ blank ]
Horizontal Push : [ blank ]
Vertical Pull : [ blank ]
Horizontal Pull : [ blank ]
Leg Push : [ blank ]
Leg Hinge : [ blank ]


Fill in the blanks (y)

It could look like this:
Vertical Push : bw dips
Horizontal Push : Bench Press
Vertical Pull : Pull-ups
Horizontal Pull : Ring Rows
Leg Push : Pistol Squat
Leg Hinge : Deadlift

Thats a lot of volume in ONE session so maybe you should consider doing it over 2 sessions - 2 days a week = 4 sessions.

/Martin Joe

OR ...

Cycle each for 12 weeks = 36 weeks (BW --> KB --> BL --> Repeat)
Well, that's kind of what I do now:

T1 = High intensity, low volume
T2 = Medium intensity, medium volume
T3 = Low intensity, higher volume

Monday: Squat Day
T1: Back Squat
T1: Partial Back Squat
T2: Snatch DL
T3: Klokov Press, abs, band pull aparts / downs

Tues: Conditioning & Prehab
KB Swings (EMOM)
TGU
Pull Up
Push Up
Horizontal Row
Leg Raises

Wed: Recovery
Massage, rolling, maybe yoga if I feel like it


Thu: Conditioning & Prehab
Sames as Tuesday

Friday: DL Day
T1: Clean DL
T2: Front Squat
T3: Snatch balance, abs, band pull aparts / downs


Sat:
Yoga

Sun:
Rest

[dynamic warmups, post workout mobility work most days]

As for tonnage, it's not that much, as barbell lifts are only 2 days a week and kettlebells don't tax me the same as heavy DLs and squats. Recovery has been fine so far.

In any case, I think my question isn't being conveyed well.

I'm very familiar with programming, balance push/pull/hinge/squat etc movements, or how to program mesocycles, peaking before competition -- I know that stuff.

My question is:

How do modify a BW progression theme (such as from Reddit or Startbodyweight) based on a 3x a week / 3 x 8 progression, to one that is 2x a week if one is also lifting weights?

My current thoughts are:

Push Ups - No change, or add volume/intensity, as I'm not doing any other horizontal presses
Shoulder - Don't do any shoulder BW exercises -- already getting enough from kettlebell and barbell
Squats - Ditto, no need for BW squats
Pulls - DL and swings do not provide any horizontal or vertical pulls, so need to increase volume from base to balance overhead static holds and light presses
Abs - "Planking" of core in barbell and KB moves isn't the same as leg lifts / L-sits, so added

Now that is all pretty subjective....but it doesn't really quantify anything.

I like the INOL approach...that looks interesting.
 

hammor

Level 1 Valued Member
Certified Instructor

pet'

Level 8 Valued Member
Hello,

Depending on the goal one may have, a combination of heavy kb swings (using sets of 5-7) paired with OAP (or the progressions toward it) works also very well.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 

WeightedPullups

Level 1 Valued Member
I don't commit to bodyweight or weights on a specific day. I am 90% calisthenics however that doesn't mean I incorporate bodyweight. When it's on days I am not doing cardio my routines are always:
pull
push
core
pull
push
legs

My staple is pull-ups and dips. The other two pulls vary and no set way. For instance one day I could be doing body rows followed with elevated pushups. On other days I can be doing weighted rows (knee and hand on bench hunched over and pulling straight up) and the push could be a weight bench and dumbbells.

Hope this helps.
 
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