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Bodyweight Bodyweight posterior chain exercise.

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Cearball

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After trying to hit some basic barbell standards for 2 years + I am considering switching to BW programmes which I was intending to do anyway if my strength continues to stall.

In NW Pavel says eventually a pull would need to be added to gtg.
He then says although you can do bridges there is a difference between training the muscles & training the movement.
Am I to assume then that bridges will build the lower back?
Would OAOLP also build the low back due to the strong training effect on the core?

the only other thing I can think of is some kind of lever but I am unfamiliar with them while I have used bridges in the past.

I could still deadlift & I would probably still be using kb's or bagwork for cardio but after going after a 2 x bw pull for so long I am kinda sick of dead lifts & would probably rather ditch them for awhile.

thanks
 
hmm interesting!

I have never thought of that.

Would you recommend replacing normal pushups with hindu pushups?

Or simply add them on as the low back work?
I suppose bridges can also fry the triceps so replacing them with hindu pushups wouldn't really constitute more arm work.

I do remember dive bomber push ups being in the NW book.

My progress has stalled in bench/deads for quite awhile now so maybe after this long rest/lay off I may go straight into a bodyweight strength program with my usual kb cardio/bagwork & MA practice.

Maybe what I need is a much bigger change than the cycling of intensity/volume/ same but different exercises with weights.
After all it cant be program hopping after a good 1+ year of PTTP & 2+ years of barbell training trying to reach the same goals

Thanks
 
In NW Pavel says eventually a pull would need to be added to gtg.
I would guess pullups would be the last thing cut and the first thing to add. Something from the progression from bodyweight rows to one are pullups, depending on where you are at?

He then says although you can do bridges there is a difference between training the muscles & training the movement.
Am I to assume then that bridges will build the lower back?
Would OAOLP also build the low back due to the strong training effect on the core?

the only other thing I can think of is some kind of lever but I am unfamiliar with them while I have used bridges in the past.

If you are looking for the full body extension you get in a bridge, I've been playing with swings followed by 3-5 broadjumps. If you look at a slowmotion video of a broadjump you'll see you get that full extension (See this one around 6 seconds in). Mainly I find it fun.

If you are sick of deadlifts don't forget to weigh being excited about the next program in there with how optimal/efficient it is for your goals.
 
The hindu push up is a multi-use exercise. Do one set of 10-20 as part of a warm up, mix with other Indian wrestling push ups (twisting half moon, scorpion, etc.) in a circuit, or do as many reps or sets of reps as you can.
 
I'd strongly recommend learning the back lever progressions. It's not terribly hard to learn and will pay dividends on the way.

Otherwise I'd say one-legged glute/ham bridges, and headstand leg raises (looks like a reverse hyper, but on your head)
 
If I may play the devil's advocate, and do so rather bluntly, what has kept you from achieving basic barbell strength standards? There are certainly a few things I can think of, such as injury history, time constraints, limited resources, etc. I would also have to ask why you would like to be strong. I mean, if it's a general "I want to be able to do life stuff real good" like most of us (including myself), then there are a lot of paths to that destination. That being said, if there is something that has kept you from achieving your barbell goals, what's to say that it won't keep you from achieving your goals via another means? I mean, if you can't DL 2x BW because you sleep 3 hours a night (for example), switching training methods won't help nearly as much as getting an extra 5 hours of sleep, ya know what I mean?
 
I'd strongly recommend learning the back lever progressions. It's not terribly hard to learn and will pay dividends on the way.

Otherwise I'd say one-legged glute/ham bridges, and headstand leg raises (looks like a reverse hyper, but on your head)


would the glute/ham bridges build the lower back as effectively as bridges or back levers?
 
If I may play the devil's advocate, and do so rather bluntly, what has kept you from achieving basic barbell strength standards? There are certainly a few things I can think of, such as injury history, time constraints, limited resources, etc. I would also have to ask why you would like to be strong. I mean, if it's a general "I want to be able to do life stuff real good" like most of us (including myself), then there are a lot of paths to that destination. That being said, if there is something that has kept you from achieving your barbell goals, what's to say that it won't keep you from achieving your goals via another means? I mean, if you can't DL 2x BW because you sleep 3 hours a night (for example), switching training methods won't help nearly as much as getting an extra 5 hours of sleep, ya know what I mean?


I don't know what has kept me from it.

I certainly don't have the optimal lifestyle, I work 12 hour shifts & routinely switch from days to nights so it is like constantly having jet lag & I struggle with getting to sleep & sleep quality.
Have been working to rectify this & my stress levels from work in order to see if it helps.

My diet isn't optimal either but I have bought a slow cooker to help with this & meal preparation.

My main priority at the moment cannot really be exercise as I have a lot to achieve with my job that I am struggling to keep up with & still have a semblance of a normal social life.
But you got to do what you can.
 
But you got to do what you can.

I agree. And very few people can, or even should, make physical training a top priority. I think "overall health," which would include eating, sleeping, and moving well should be pretty high on the list, but even that has to take back seat to a few things. If it seems like you're stalling out, I think it can be beneficial to take some time out and focus on the basics for a few months. Learn how to easily prepare healthy food (I love my crock pot too), learn how to sleep well (it's definitely a skill, and one I'm still working on), and get back to the basics of strength training. It sounds like the sleep thing may be a big issue for you. Although you may not be able to change your sleep patterns, I would be willing to bet that you could optimize them. Light control, white noise usage, relaxation techniques, blue/white light exposure in the morning, morning Vitamin D supplementation, and appropriate use of melatonin can all help. I underline appropriate since the normal 3 mg tablet you get is about 100x the amount your body makes during the whole night. It's easy to go overboard with it, but it can help you reset your internal clock.

I would agree with you that a NW approach to strength training, or at least a very low stress approach, is the way to go right now. I would second @Steve Freides in that S&S is a great low stress approach, and it only has two, very high yield movements to focus on. You will still make some progress even if you can only do it 3-5 days a week. NW/GTG might be better if you have time during the work day to take 5 minutes every hour or so, but stowing a KB somewhere to do swings with might be more efficient that working both pull ups and back bridges. Either way, you may be surprised how little volume it takes to cause adaptation.
 
@Cearball, why not do S & S?

-S-

I should of said that my plan was initially after hitting barbell goals to move onto bodyweight strength moves anyway, but they are harder to attain than my barbell goals in my opinion, a higher level of strength.

So I would still be going after strength goals I had set.

Swings are a part of my training anyway but I only tend to do really light TGU for my warm ups.

BTW thanks for everyone for advice & Merry Xmas!
 
I agree. And very few people can, or even should, make physical training a top priority. I think "overall health," which would include eating, sleeping, and moving well should be pretty high on the list, but even that has to take back seat to a few things. If it seems like you're stalling out, I think it can be beneficial to take some time out and focus on the basics for a few months. Learn how to easily prepare healthy food (I love my crock pot too), learn how to sleep well (it's definitely a skill, and one I'm still working on), and get back to the basics of strength training. It sounds like the sleep thing may be a big issue for you. Although you may not be able to change your sleep patterns, I would be willing to bet that you could optimize them. Light control, white noise usage, relaxation techniques, blue/white light exposure in the morning, morning Vitamin D supplementation, and appropriate use of melatonin can all help. I underline appropriate since the normal 3 mg tablet you get is about 100x the amount your body makes during the whole night. It's easy to go overboard with it, but it can help you reset your internal clock.

I would agree with you that a NW approach to strength training, or at least a very low stress approach, is the way to go right now. I would second @Steve Freides in that S&S is a great low stress approach, and it only has two, very high yield movements to focus on. You will still make some progress even if you can only do it 3-5 days a week. NW/GTG might be better if you have time during the work day to take 5 minutes every hour or so, but stowing a KB somewhere to do swings with might be more efficient that working both pull ups and back bridges. Either way, you may be surprised how little volume it takes to cause adaptation.


Never heard of these melatonin supps, I will look into it.

At one point my sleep got quite bad & after a few stints of 40+ hours of not being able to sleep I sought professional help.

Unfortunately on different occasions both professionals strongly thought my job was causing the problem so unless I quit (I am looking to maybe change jobs) I am stuck with this issue. Should get better after I finish my work related training (about 5 years away).

ATM I am taking over a month off all training (will be trying a little skiing on holiday) & just doing some stretching 3-7 times a week & working on relaxing/enjoying myself & eating more & healthier.

Normally when I have holidays I tend to do somewhat intensive things like high altitude hiking.
 
Sounds like you're set for the holidays. My advice, once you pick up training again, is to aim for a minimum effective dose in regard to exercise. Pick your program (NW, S&S, etc) and be diligent about a high quality, low stress approach. I mean, you're not a pro athlete, so time is on your side. If you take it easy, you might not achieve your goals for a couple years. But as long as you're improving each month, then why worry? I have a buddy with a few health problems that suck up his body's recovery resources. When he takes his training easy, he slowly gets faster and stronger. Every once in a while he gets all excited, pushes hard, burns out, and bam. There goes four months worth of training. Just don't be that guy.
 
I will outline my programme for people.

It would be

Workout 1

Pistols
Pushups
Pull ups

Cardio (swings or bagwork)

Ab wheel rollouts

Workout 2

BRIDGES
handstand pushups
pull ups

cardio (swings or bagwork)

ab wheel rollouts


alternate the workouts .


so looking at the exercises what would be a good option for an exercise to replace bridges, I am thinking something for the lower back is needed in this programmes.

out of Hindu pushups, hamstring curls, headstand leg raises, broad jumps etc

I would be leaning more towards headstand leg raises or hamstring curls if people think the bridge isn't a good low back developer.

however which exercise do people feel is the better fit?

Thanks
 
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