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Bodyweight Bodyweight progression guidance

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Kyrinov

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Hello gents.

Looking to leave the kb aside for a bit and work on bodyweight stuff for a while. Relevant hx first.

30 yo male, 6'3" 205 lb

Active since childhood, serious martial arts since ten years, non competitive mostly. Serious strength training since two years. Mostly s&s for strength, hit simple and worked with 40 for all sets but have not hit standards for progression to 48. Can do pistols for about five reps and oapu for two or three.

Better than average mobility in most ranges, lots of wrestling, rolling etc. some hardware in L calcaneus doesnt give too much trouble except after long day on feet a bit stiff. Good mobility in subtalar.

Looking to stsrt knocking off bodyweight skills. For good kinetic chain function and career longevity. Am a paramedic so concerned about back injuries long term.

Currently working back lever progressions. Also trying to work on handstands and l sits. Using 3x a wk with back lever, with 3 or 4 holds of 5-10 secs. Doing hs and l sit gtg as i can. Only other training is systema once a week for four hours and lots of related movement basics, kb swings and various presses suuuper easy with low weight (24) just for blood flow, maintenance and mobility

Looking for general input for programming my main goals. First want the back lever, then excellent handstands. Then will switch to front lever l sit goals. Any guidance or warnings much appreciated.
 
Hello Kyrinov

I don't meet many people as tall as you willing to even attempt front or back levers. It's a shame because they are great exercises.

I don't know what you are doing your levers on but using rings or something similar can help a lot of people. With rings it's a lot easier to add a skin the cat between holds and the rings allow a much more natural hand position. I find a skin the cat is an excellent way to have an active rest period and it allows me get more done in less time. I alternate my levers front & back with a skin the cat between them. For some reason I find levers easier after a skin the cat maneuver, for me it seems to preload the muscles required and makes the levers easier.

It can be taxing on the grip though, it seems like the grip is more difficult at extremes of shoulder rotation like you get in a back lever and a fully rotated skin the cat.
 
Cheers Tarzan. Yes, the leverage advantage that makes striking easier makes these kinds of things harder. But, in my way of thinking - if its harder and I suck at it, then there's enormous room for improvement! Thanks for the advice. My rings are buried in my overstuffed storage closet, thanks to some "light tidying" my mother in law did while I was away at work! For now using a local playground bar. I did it once or twice with rings and yes, the skin the cat movement seems to help indeed. I try to do some german hangs in between and find they help immensely. Will make a mental note to find the courage to attack the closet and liberate the rings!
 
Good luck with it, let us know when you can pull it off.

I like to teach younger people levers quite early in their training. It's the perfect way to teach full body tension, you'll probably never get there if you don't develop the tension required.

Sometimes it helps to practice tensing up throughout the day when you are not near a bar. Just hold your arms in the rotational aspect required for the lever and tense everything right up and visualise the position of the hold.

Keep your butt puckered so you don't blow a valve :eek:
 
Looking for general input for programming my main goals.
Even though it's not specific to your stated goals, I would highly recommend two resources, both by Pavel:

Naked Warrior

and

Hard Style Abs

And consider taking our bodyweight course sometime - great stuff as well.

-S-
 
I'd recommend "Building the Gymnastic Body" by Coach Sommer and "Overcoming Gravity" by Steven Low. Both very detailed and with reasonable progressions on exercises like levers.
 
What Steve said:
  • Read The Naked Warrior and Hardstyle Abs. Many times (I read NW like 50 times, and every time I read it again I discover something I didn't notice before)
  • Attend 1-Day SFB Course
Progressions are one thing, the general principles of skill of strength another. Pavel's books will teach you both.
 
Steve and Pavel, thanks for the input, have read both, not quite so many times as Pavel (maybe NW x5) but the principles are there. Kettlebelephant - Somers and Low are directly responsible for me putting my KBs aside for a bit to try this crazy bodyweight adventure. Low's book is out of this world good. Dug my rings out of the closet and got to work on them today. Much better than a bar. Hold the BL position (or rather the progression I'm on) for a bit and then try to squeeze harder to roll myself back the way I came rather than just losing tension and letting the feet drop. Very very challenging to hold yourself in a disadvantaged position for time and then to have to actively move out of it! I figure this kind of approach will build greater control in the extreme ranges by placing me the furthest I can safely go isometrically and then having to move out of that position - really demands dialing up full body tension.
 
Kyrinov - I look forward to hearing your progress.

When you begin to move on to handstands, start with a solid hollow position and us an elevation to raise the feet and practice stacking the hips over the hands. For most I would recommend shoulder mobility drills prior to handstands, however if you are working skin the cat and levers you are probably pretty squared away in that area. Then proceed to wall handstands (time under tension). Kick up or walk up the wall and practice getting into hollow upside down and then slowly progress to freestanding.
 
Happy (Canadian) Thanksgiving folks! A beautiful day here in Barrie, perfect fall weather with a light breeze. Lots be thankful for as I start my career as a paramedic in earnest at a cutting edge service and expect my first child at the end of the month. Just wanted to update on my progress in this little adventure into ring training. I've really taken to the rings in a way that I hadn't before so thanks to Tarzan for that. I'm getting the "ring bug" in the same way that I got the "iron bug" and the "martial arts bug" before. As my nervous system processes the new info I'm gaining some great insights and plenty of WTH moments. Progress has been in fits and starts as I've been occupied with new hire orientation and training in a city 3 hours away (we'll move after baby is born,) and so haven't always been in a situation to go seek out a tree branch to hang my rings on as often as I'd like. That said I've kept at it pretty steady the past month and really appreciate the feedback given on this original post. Have moved from really struggling just to lower myself to parallel to being able to straighten my back and extend my legs. I can stick them out a bit but *shouldn't* because I can really feel some excessive strain in the pelvic area when I do so and once or twice I got a bit of nerve impingement so am really focusing on just trying to extend by a cm or two each time. Easy strength is the way to go for me! Can't afford any kind of injury at this point.

Tarzan, the skin the cat drill has been a fantastic help, it certainly helps in the manner you suggested and is a wonderful movement in and of itself. It's a great tension teaching tool as you really have to dial up the tension when you're hanging in that awkward bottom position, it's really neat to be more and more comfortable moving into and out of extremes of motion and to feel that tension pulling my body around my shoulder girdle. I've found in general that I "possess" my arms more as a result of my training, the nervous system is really opening up in the shoulders and arms, with much greater sensitivity, comfort and control being the result. In fact this sensation has long been my litmus test for "good" training. If something generates this sensation of increased "nervous system possession" or whatever you want to call it...where you feel more that your body is your body...then I just keep doing it until I have completely milked it for all it's worth. The deadlift seems to do this well too but my access to a barbell has been sketchy though that might change soon as I move to my new city for my new career and I have a backyard to fill with strength gear!

My new home has some good places to hang rings in the backyard so this should make my progress much faster as I will have the opportunity to use much more of a GTG approach rather than sporadic, focused sessions. I'm still playing with the session structure but this is kind of what it is looking like at the moment.

warmup
ballistic shoulder stretches
2/3x upright and upside down static holds

main session (3x)
1/2x skin the cat
1x 5-10 second static holds, trying to extend a little bit more each set

I throw in a bit of lower body work between sets just to keep the blood flowing and make use of limited time, nothing serious, just a bit of using the back of a park bench as a balancing beam and doing singles of pistols. The balancing beam work is actually great as a litmus test of the state of my nervous system as it is easy and comfy after the first set by by the second or third I start finding my balance more and more difficult to maintain. Same with pistols. This is really interesting work, thanks so much for all the input guys, I feel like a year from now my shoulders are going to have a level of function that not long ago i would never have dreamt of! The rings truly are an awesome training tool for the shoulder girdle!
 
Have you tried adding in lever progressions from the top down as well as the ones you are currently working from bottom up? It is a great way to see any sticking points, leakage in your tension.

Look forward to hearing about your progress and hope to see you at a course or cert some day. :)
 
Have you tried adding in lever progressions from the top down as well as the ones you are currently working from bottom up? It is a great way to see any sticking points, leakage in your tension.

Look forward to hearing about your progress and hope to see you at a course or cert some day. :)


Karen,

Not sure what you mean by "top down" rather than "bottom up". Can you provide further clarification? And to both of you, I am eager to do the SFG cert but it seems to only come round to Ontario once a year and it always ends up at the worst possible time. I would have signed up for the one this weekend save for the fact that I knew I would be where I am at this very moment - in my third day of learning the "dad ropes" of diapers and feedings. As for the SFB, it never seems to come round these parts and I'm certainly in no position to go traveling for it at this particular juncture. But as I've learned, things change faster than I'd ever imagined possible so we'll see. As always, thanks for the advice.
 
Karen,

Not sure what you mean by "top down" rather than "bottom up". Can you provide further clarification? And to both of you, I am eager to do the SFG cert but it seems to only come round to Ontario once a year and it always ends up at the worst possible time. I would have signed up for the one this weekend save for the fact that I knew I would be where I am at this very moment - in my third day of learning the "dad ropes" of diapers and feedings. As for the SFB, it never seems to come round these parts and I'm certainly in no position to go traveling for it at this particular juncture. But as I've learned, things change faster than I'd ever imagined possible so we'll see. As always, thanks for the advice.

Where are these parts? We can look in to getting something possibly set up.
Also to clarify top down vs bottom up. When working front levers many people start from a dead hang (like the beginning of a pull up) and then pull engage the lats and try to pull the legs to parallel with the floor. In the SFB we spend time owning each phase of each skill we are working. So the top down for the Front lever would be to curl up side down hanging onto the bar and slowly lower from the top down to parallel. Hope that is clear.
 
Karen,

Thank you. It didn't occur to me to do this "bottom up" as you describe. That would be far too difficult! Though your top-down suggestion did cause me to consider trying to slowly lower myself in full extension until the point at which I can barely control the tension. This has worked well, so thank you although was not your intention. These parts being Ontario. I presume if you were going to do this anywhere would be Toronto.

Charles
 
Am tantalizingly close to a full back lever. Am going to get my wife to video soon to verify and if so will post for critique. Have dropped traditional progressions entirely since last post. The different positions grew counterintuitive and seemed somewhat inefficient. I decided to use the angle as my progression. I just slowly lowered myself bit by bit, dialing up tension as i went. Worked beautifully. Will use the same when tackling front lever. Strength is noticeably improved.
 
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