Kettlebell Breathing during S&S

[oukeith1]

Hello all! I have recently started back on the S&S path for the winter. I am looking forward to the nice mix of strength, mobility, and aerobic training during the cold months where I won’t really be able to get outside and jog.

I completed timed Simple last spring.

As I was rereading the book, I realized that I don’t follow Pavel’s advice on breath at all. So one of my goals this winter is to master my breath.

As I was practicing deep, slow breaths in between sets, I really felt short of breath.

My question is, what is the true benefit of the slow, deep nasal breathing between sets? I feel like I am not getting enough oxygen and it is slowing down my recovery. (I have no data to support this yet.). I also am uncomfortable with exaggerating my exhalation.

Far be it from me to ignore Pavel’s instruction, but this breathing instruction is not something that I’m sure I fully buy into.

Convince me to follow Pavel’s advice, or provide me some pointers that I might be over looking.

So any thoughts on breath?

 

[Bauer]

I was in a similar situation, but after going through the Second Wind Express course I change my mind. So I would recommend that as a resource

Don't try to breath too deep at first.

Something to try: Breath in deeply, hold it shortly, then breath through pursed lips. Don't force the length or depth of the breathing - focus on the resistance provided by your lips. Try it a few times and check for yourself it it helps you to calm down or not. This is not only about oxygen, but also about the way your brain interprets the state of the body and about activating the parasympathetic nervous system.

If you own S&S 1.0 you could try straw breathing in the evening or after S&S. It will probably teach you not to be stressed by being a bit out of breath between sets.

Here is some input from Anna C from a great thread:

I've been slowly building my breathing practice to incorporate the things I learned at Second Wind, and straw breathing was the first that I started to use because in many ways it's the simplest to do. The tool teaches the method.

At Second Wind we did essentially what was in S&S 1.0, but a little more structured. 3 minutes breathing through 1 straw. 3 minutes break (while the lecture continued). Then 3 minutes with a second straw inserted to the first, so the straw was 2 straws long. Then 3 minutes break. Then 3 minutes with 3 straws, for those who were comfortable. It was quite pleasant and relaxing. The 3 straws definitely encourages a long, slow, deeper breath which is relaxing in itself. And the more straws there are, the more CO2 you are "rebreathing", so the greater the hypercapnic effect.

Pavel recommended to do this after training. Before training is OK, but not before high power/strength. You don't need to pause or take the breaks that we did, and can go right to the 3 straws or whatever you're comfortable with.

 

[Anna C]

Breath is a neat thing to play with. Does it help your practice? Does it help outside your practice? Maybe. I'm truly not sure. But I can say that it helps focus your practice, and it makes things more interesting. It's just one more thing to get better at, as part of your practice. So here we go.

Yes, it can detract from your practice if you take it too far, depriving yourself of the breath you need to recover between sets. The trick is to stay on that edge, and to push that edge a little bit by practicing taking less breaths. This does two things -- makes you slightly hypercapnic (more CO2 in the blood, which theoretically improves your oxygen delivery to the cells due to the Bohr effect), and makes you breathe deeper, which improves your capacity to breathe.

So how to take less breaths? I used to guide students this way. Do your sets of 10 swings on the minute. After set 4, count how many breaths you take between setting the kettlebell down and the top of the next minute when you do your next set. After set 5, try to slow and deepen your breathing just a bit, and count how many breaths you take. After set 6, 7, 8, and 9, take one breath less than you took after set 5. You will learn to make the breaths a little deeper and more effective.

 

[oukeith1]

@Bauer - thank you for the insight. I will check out Second Wind and find out more about straw breathing. I’ll also give your technique a go tomorrow and report back.

 

[oukeith1]

@Anna C , that is interesting. I see that you are not necessarily telling me that this aids in performance. (Hope I am not putting words in your mouth.)

I will try your drill with the 24 during my next glycolytic session on Friday. Thanks!

 

[Anna C]

@Anna C , that is interesting. I see that you are not necessarily telling me that this aids in performance. (Hope I am not putting words in your mouth.)

Correct... I don't actually know if it does. My suspicion is that it helps most people in one way or another, and it's one of many aspects of training that is available to you for improvement opportunities, so it's worth a try.

A lot of people have a chest breathing pattern, which isn't our most healthy way to breathe because it tends to keep your body in more of a sympathetic nervous system dominant state ("fight or flight") vs. a diaphragmatic breathing pattern which is more parasympathetic nervous system dominant ("rest and digest"). A fairly simple way to check in with your breathing is to put one hand on your chest, and the other on your belly. Which hand moves as you breathe? Ideally, it's mostly the belly hand. If it's mostly the chest hand, you could surely benefit from some breathing practice to get deeper and more diaphragmatic breaths. You can check in with your breathing this way both at rest and during exercise (active recovery, like between sets of swings). Similarly, you can practice breathing more diaphragmatically both at rest, and during exercise. Either way, the practice can benefit your breathing at all times.

 

[silveraw]

@Pavel Macek has a podcast interview that goes through breathing in S&S that might be of interest. He goes through some of the reasoning as well as recommends different techniques.

 

[Adachi]

As a tuba player for decades, I'm not so enamoured with the athletic perspective of breathing.

when recovering between sets, I advise...

breathe in fully, hold, breathe out,
breathe in fully, hold, breathe out, etc.
As soon as you can, Increase the length of the hold sightly each time.

And for s&s restricting to nasal breathing seems unnecessary.

 

[Anna C]

As a tuba player for decades, I'm not so enamoured with the athletic perspective of breathing.

My thought there is that your breathing is good already, therefore you're at a point of diminishing returns. But many people have never developed their lung capacity, diaphragm strength, breath control, etc... and practice while training can be a way to do this, if it isn't there already.

 

[Adachi]

But many people have never developed their lung capacity, diaphragm strength, breath control, etc.

having been through many breathing-specific programs (the most famous being breathing Gym) I understand that most people do not spend much time if any exploring the zenith and nadir of oxygenation or hypercapnia.

a small anecdote on the strangeness of "breathing advice" for athletic purposes

coach: don't breathe through your mouth - breathe through your nose.
me: ok (resultant slowing in pace from less air exchange per unit time)
coach: pick up the pace
me: (thinking confused thoughts)

if, and only if, the goal is to recover more completely, and more quickly for the purposes of conducting another bout sooner, then maximal oxygenation is, by definition, the optimized process. The relevant physiology of the internal surface of the lungs, and physics' real gas laws, which dictate a rate of exchange (across the time of exposure) inherently call for a full-held breath, in order to allow the greatest time exposure to the oxygen content of the fluid bed which is in contact with the alveoli, which allows for the greatest oxygen inflow to the bloodstream per unit time.

and if a cue is required for how to breathe in more fully, then practice breathing meeting the mouth to the exterior of the center cardstock of a paper towel roll or similar, and notice how quickly inhalation completes. and compare that to a straw.

I mean - there can only be some other goal in mind; some other objective than maximizing the rate of oxygenation, and the subsequent recovery which is indicated as necessary by increased cardiovascular activity, to justify restricting the athlete to nasal breathing. EDIT: (I restrict myself to nasal breathing during anything resembling Alactic snatches - for the other purpose of measuring intensity and rest.)