Barbell BTS PTTP (Between Sets Power to the People)

[JeffC]

I tried PTTP early last year and enjoyed it. It doesn’t feel like you accomplishing much of anything while you are doing it. It seems too easy. I added a bunch of fluff and puff because I can’t leave well enough alone.

I did a 40 workout trial of my improvised, but spirited Power to the People. I did a Linear Progression with small jumps on Bench and Deadlift. Real small jumps of 0.5-1kg per practice.

I hit 507lb on Axel Deadlift https://www.strongfirst.com/community/threads/fat-dads-gym.8898/page-7#post-101994 and the next day 287lb on Axel Bench https://www.strongfirst.com/community/threads/fat-dads-gym.8898/page-7#post-102225 After coming off a long layoff of lifting I was surprised by those numbers. Not my best Lifts, but I lifted nowhere near that in training.

This time with PTTP I am sticking more closely to the program, but still adding stuff to my 5min rest periods. After 25 workouts I hit 600lb on a Trap Bar and 315 x 2 Bench in the same practice without really trying or lifting anywhere close to that in practice. https://www.strongfirst.com/community/threads/fat-dads-gym.8898/page-29#post-156600

If I drop the fluff and puff and put more focused effort into the program as written could I do better? Is only 2 x 5 of 2 exercises enough to stay functional and progress? Maybe just some light stretching or some active recovery?

The other stuff does not seem like much but it draws from the bank and I am on a tight budget as it is. As loads increase my room for additional work will be less and will restrict the spirit of the program.

 

[Pavel Macek]

@Geoff Chafe PTTP! is "Easy Strength" program. Small jumps a re not recommended - in the beginning of the cycle you are just spinning our wheels and don't go anywhere, and in the middle/end you train too heavy for too long.

Stick to the program - and possibly try different PTTP! variation - 5/3/2, or 3 ladders of (1,2,3), or choose a different program - e.g. some kind of 5x5 (e.g. 80/20 Powerlifting).

 

[JeffC]

@Pavel Macek The last number of weeks I have been adding 5lb to Bench and 10lb to Deadlift per day. I am lifting 5 days a week. 5 steps forward and 4 steps back.

It is not challenging yet so I am adding exercises between my main sets and at the end. I do a short warmup of Dislocates for the upper body, Goblet Squats to maintain the pattern which I neglected last time, and Single Leg Deadlifts for hip stability. I do not do any warmup sets on my main lift.

After reading about 80/20 I am wondering if I should just use my rest periods to rest.

I will go to 5,3,2 when 2 x 5 becomes difficult. I never considered ladders, but it would have to fit in my time constraints. 5 x 5 is not an option now as I am minimizing my investment, but I have spend years s on 5 x 5 programs and I am more interested in anything different.

I liked the small incremental jumps and it did work pretty well for me. After over six months of not lifting at all in 40 workouts I hit some decent numbers. For me I eased back into lifting and built consistently. I may have been spinning my wheels but at the time I felt like I was building a lot of quality volume.

 

[LukeV]

I added a bunch of fluff and puff because I can’t leave well enough alone.

This is the story of my weightlifting life. I don't believe I've ever done a program as prescribed for longer than one cycle. Then I'm tinkering ... for good or bad, I guess.

I greatly enjoyed PTTP but the 90% back off set frustrated me so I ended up doing 2x5 at the same weight - no doubt sacrificing some top weight across the periodisation to ensure recovery.

Wendler has provided enough versions of 531 that it should be impossible not to comply but he clearly hadn't contemplated my five day per week version.

Right now I've taken Justa's Singles #1 but didn't like the 3 and 5 rep days so have averaged and do 9 reps per day @ the recommended 70% RM. This seems to be working for me.

I've got good result from all of the above but would I have done better for longer on the programs as written? That is the question.

Some days I think it would all be easier just to stick to the program as is but this just doesn't seem to align with my psychology.

 

[JeffC]

@LukeV It's important to make a program you do your own. Take your knowledge and self awareness to adapt your training to your needs. You still need to maintain the core of the program if you claim you are doing said program.

I do PTTP as written, but between sets I use the 5min to do something I need or want. Is doing a light exercise like stretch the hip flexors, Gripper Crushing, band pullaparts or face Pulls between sets taking and limiting the spirit of the program. It is easy corrective work but may be taking focus and tension from the main lifts.

A Press and a Deadlift are not a catch all if you have tight shoulders, winged scapula, forearm pain, etc. or just want more biceps or better pull-ups.

I read this article which got me thinking, should my rest periods just be rest periods. As opposed to what I do is try to make efficient use of my time investment. With PTTP you are only active 2 of 17 minutes. In my mind that is not an efficient use of time.
Pavel: 80/20 Powerlifting and How to Add 110+ Pounds to Your Lifts

 

[Oscar]

5 steps forward and 4 steps back.

So this means that you load 50 pounds per week and deload 40 pounds next Monday?

 

[Sean M]

I greatly enjoyed PTTP but the 90% back off set frustrated me so I ended up doing 2x5 at the same weight - no doubt sacrificing some top weight across the periodisation to ensure recovery.

FWIW, you can do 5-3-2 all at the same weight, instead of 5 @ 90% of the prior set.

 

[JeffC]

So this means that you load 50 pounds per week and deload 40 pounds next Monday?

Yes, in the book it says do something else for a Wave but this is very logical to me. I do my heaviest day Friday, deload, at start Monday at 10lbs heavier than last week. Same on Bench but 5lb increments.

 

[Steve W.]

5 steps forward and 4 steps back.

So this means that you load 50 pounds per week and deload 40 pounds next Monday?

Yes, in the book it says do something else for a Wave but this is very logical to me.

The book gives an example of 4 steps forward/3 steps back for a structured wave cycle, which is my favorite way to do it. But it's the principle of waving the load that is important; there are lots of ways to cook it. 5 steps forward over 5 sessions in a training week makes a lot of sense.

I greatly enjoyed PTTP but the 90% back off set frustrated me

Personally, I LOVE the 90% back off sets. It's a great feeling when a weight that was a challenging top set at one time becomes an easy 90% back off set later on.

 

[Steve W.]

I do PTTP as written, but between sets I use the 5min to do something I need or want. Is doing a light exercise like stretch the hip flexors, Gripper Crushing, band pullaparts or face Pulls between sets taking and limiting the spirit of the program. It is easy corrective work but may be taking focus and tension from the main lifts.

I know Dan John follows this approach a lot, doing sets of stretches and "correctives" (although personally I dislike the whole dysfunction/corrective paradigm) between work sets of strength exercises.

Pavel has also written about what he calls "power circuits," where the idea is be more time efficient by doing sets of different exercises in a circuit, still taking relatively generous rest breaks, but less than if you were doing consecutive sets of the same exercise.

 

[Steve Freides]

@Geoff Chafe, that's some strong lifting you do there, sir.

-S-

 

[Deleted member 5559]

personally I dilike the whole dysfunction/corrective paradigm

I saw a pretty good article a couple years ago all about not doing this also. Basically, the movements you do through full range of motion with proper technique should do everything a person needs.

 

[Shahaf Levin]

personally I dilike the whole dysfunction/corrective paradigm

Why? What's there to like or dilike? If one has a dysfunctional pattern why avoiding addressing it?

I saw a pretty good article a couple years ago all about not doing this also. Basically, the movements you do through full range of motion with proper technique should do everything a person needs.

And If one has a dysfunction how can proper technique be achevied?

Corrective drills are just that, drills that are perfirned in order to reduce dysfunction...

 

[Steve W.]

Not trying to hijack this thread, and I probably shouldn't have even mentioned the topic of "correctives" since I'm not really interested in debating the subject.

I saw a pretty good article a couple years ago all about not doing this also. Basically, the movements you do through full range of motion with proper technique should do everything a person needs.

I am not saying that it isn't useful to do what is commonly referred to as mobility/movement/flexibility (and often "corrective") training in addition to main strength training exercises. I just don't like the paradigm of defining and thinking about this as correction for dysfunction.

Why? What's there to like or dilike? If one has a dysfunctional pattern why avoiding addressing it?

Corrective drills are just that, drills that are perfirned in order to reduce dysfunction...

This is circular reasoning. Dysfunction is a term of interpretation, not description. The dysfunction/correction paradigm is a way of thinking about the state of the body and the intent of training, not a description of the state of the body.

I am not advocationg avoiding anything (or advocating anything at all for that matter), but it is not a paradigm that I find helpful.

I prefer to think of all my training in one way...

[Edit (hopefully) for clarity: As opposed to separating "training" from "mobility," "correctives," or whatever. If I feel a need for better movement in a certain way, I don't think of addressing it as a correction of a dysfunction any more than feeling a need to increase my military press is a correction for a dysfunction. And there are some drills that just help me to feel good and move freely, but are not targeted at any specific perceived deficit]

...(although this is not the only way I think of it), as activity performed for pleasure and to produce a net positive balance of desirable adaptations, and I try to be realistic about the subjectivity of those goals.

Sorry for the digression.

 

[Shahaf Levin]

I prefer to think of all my training in one way (although this is not the only way I think of it), as activity performed for pleasure and to produce a net positive balance of desirable adaptations, and I try to be realistic about the subjectivity of those goals.

We definitely agree on that one.

Sorry for the digression.

Me too

 

[Deleted member 5559]

It's interesting to see the two options of dynamic loading using small incremental jumps or static loading followed by large jumps. I have not seen much recommending the middle. Is this similar to heart rate training ideally being low or very high and the middle ground not being that effective?

@Geoff Chafe I always feel a little weird just waiting around for the next set. I have gotten over it a little bit but I do really like antagonist supersets when I feel like you are now. Would light TGUs between deads work and warm up the shoulders for pressing? Also, would light swings between presses work to reinforce the deads? I've done a lot of programs over the years but PttP surprisingly is not one them so my thoughts are purely theoretical for what you're doing.

 

[Zack Kaufman]

I am currently doing PTTP with dead and single arm kettlebell presses. I do curls too for my wife.

Between sets I do original strength resets like rocking, rolling and head knods.

I am curious if anyone has done kettlebell presses in PTTP and what rep schemes have worked. Because the kettlebells I have access to are big jumps 20-24-28, it’s not possible to add small incremental poundage.

 

[Oscar]

I am currently doing PTTP with dead and single arm kettlebell presses. I do curls too for my wife.

Between sets I do original strength resets like rocking, rolling and head knods.

I am curious if anyone has done kettlebell presses in PTTP and what rep schemes have worked. Because the kettlebells I have access to are big jumps 20-24-28, it’s not possible to add small incremental poundage.

Hi Zack, welcome to SF!

Take a look at this thread:

pttp and kb press

 

[Steve Freides]

I am currently doing PTTP with dead and single arm kettlebell presses. I do curls too for my wife.

Ditch the curls and do chinups or pullups instead.

I am curious if anyone has done kettlebell presses in PTTP and what rep schemes have worked. Because the kettlebells I have access to are big jumps 20-24-28, it’s not possible to add small incremental poundage.

In addition to @Pavel Macek's excellent suggestions in the thread linked to above, consider the DDD approach to pressing. Pick a bell that's about 75% 1RM and do 2 sets of 5 each arm, but once every week or week-and-a-half or so, press something heavier for whatever you can get, usually less than 2 sets of 5. The DDD suggests 80, 85, 90, 82, 87, and 92% as weights to use for those heavier days. Round the weights as needed and if, e.g., your 80 and 85% turn out to be the same bell, that's OK. Once you hit the 92% pressing day, back off a bit and then test for a new pressing max.

-S-