bluejeff
Level 7 Valued Member
isn't a chunk of that training time spent doing lighter movement? it's like when people hear that gymnasts train 3-4 hours a day and they picture 3-4 hours of rope climbs and planching.
Bodyweight Building power without weights
- Thread starter movestrength
- Start date
- Status
bluejeff
Level 7 Valued Member
I just had a thought about the original topic here:
Wouldn't it be simplest to say that if you can do higher and higher box jumps that you are getting more powerful?
And to that effect, for the upper body:
-pushups from the floor up onto blocks, or just higher and higher plyo pushups with added claps, etc?
- explosive pullups (think bar muscle ups)
Edit:
explosive pulling
Wouldn't it be simplest to say that if you can do higher and higher box jumps that you are getting more powerful?
And to that effect, for the upper body:
-pushups from the floor up onto blocks, or just higher and higher plyo pushups with added claps, etc?
- explosive pullups (think bar muscle ups)
Edit:
explosive pulling
the hansenator
Level 6 Valued Member
Box jumps can go higher if flexibility improves too. Vertical jumps where you reach with your hand might be a more accurate indicator.
movestrength
Level 4 Valued Member
I suspect so.
It looks somewhat similar to capoeira combined with hand balancing and mobility training.
I have been doing a high rest lactate sprints and 3x3 of box jumps, broad jumps, and jump squats over an obstacle or hurdle.
The mobility flow training looks interesting but I don't label it as power training.
Tarzan
Level 6 Valued Member
I've got no time for anything Portal says or writes. One of his students did his one arm ring hanging mobility sessions and ripped his pec muscle to shreds on a youtube vid. Conner Mc'Gregor went under his tutelage and destroyed his career. Sure his methods create some short term mobility effects and other benefits but long term it's a joint loosening program.
I went through his squat routine for a few months and it ended up rupturing two spinal disks , one ended up splitting radially and the other one split radially and axially (similar to the injury Brian Carroll experienced). His philosophy has some beneficial effects in the short term but long term it's counterproductive.
I went through his squat routine for a few months and it ended up rupturing two spinal disks , one ended up splitting radially and the other one split radially and axially (similar to the injury Brian Carroll experienced). His philosophy has some beneficial effects in the short term but long term it's counterproductive.
movestrength
Level 4 Valued Member
Some of his philosophies are interesting but I don't believe he has any experience or credentials as a coach with the exception of training Connor.
I'm currently watching this video by Chad Wesley Smith and he has experience training NFL and Olympic athletes.
Training for Life
Level 6 Valued Member
Which squat routine you mean? The mobility drills found on Youtube with two versions (original and 2.0)?
Chrisdavisjr
Level 7 Valued Member
Really sorry to hear about your injury. I've got to say, Portal always seemed like something of a 'crank' to me (although I'm sure many people probably thought the same about Pavel and those 'kettlebell things of his' once upon a time).
Can't say I've spent any appreciable amount of time looking into the Ido Portal Method but there are only so many hours in the day.
Tarzan
Level 6 Valued Member
It was the original routine (I think) I haven't looked into it for a while.
I really should have qualified that post above with a few important facts. I really didn't mean to dump on the guy like that and my comment was a bit over the top.
I'm an older guy in my mid fifties with a long history of back injuries (both discogenic and spinal vertebra breaks). I'm sure that someone who is younger or someone without my history of injury could benefit from his programs. It just didn't work for me with my pre existing conditions.
My back injuries responded quite well to his programs in the past and I was able to stretch & mobilize my spine back into action using his methods after an injury and his idea of relaxed flow and applying tension just before the point of impact (in the case of MMA practitioners) really has merit. It just didn't work for me after my last injury & it almost crippled me as I kept aggravating old problems using his methods.
I'm more of an adherent to the Stuart McGill school of thought these days and I really don't think lumbar mobility has much place in weight lifting. These days my focus is on hip mobility and gluteal activation to keep the lumbar region as rigid as possible. So my comment above was really out of context as Ido has a different set of goals than I do now.
pet'
Level 8 Valued Member
Hello,
As far as the combination of power, strength, flexibility and mobility is concerned, I would more look at wrestling training or even gymnastics (from George St Pierre's standpoint, the latter are among the most complete athletes on average).
Portal's work has its benefits, as @Tarzan says. But it has a lot of drawbacks as well.
- To a certain extent, too much flexibility / mobility
- Hard to maintain
- Extremely long to build
- Clearly, too expensive
IMHO, Scott Sonnon's work is more 'useful and effective'. He trains using different tools (bells, maces, bodyweight, flows, etc...). The learning curve is also way shorter
Kind regards,
Pet'
As far as the combination of power, strength, flexibility and mobility is concerned, I would more look at wrestling training or even gymnastics (from George St Pierre's standpoint, the latter are among the most complete athletes on average).
Portal's work has its benefits, as @Tarzan says. But it has a lot of drawbacks as well.
- To a certain extent, too much flexibility / mobility
- Hard to maintain
- Extremely long to build
- Clearly, too expensive
IMHO, Scott Sonnon's work is more 'useful and effective'. He trains using different tools (bells, maces, bodyweight, flows, etc...). The learning curve is also way shorter
Kind regards,
Pet'
Kenny Croxdale
Level 7 Valued Member
Resource
The information that you provided is extremely questionable.
Please provide the resource that you obtain this information from.
Chrisdavisir also posed this question in an earlier post.
Research Data
Power Output Estimate in University Athletes
Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research, 1996,10(3),161-166 © 1996 National Strength & Conditioning Association
ABSTRACT
Estimated and actual peak power values were 4,707 ± 1,511 and 4,687 ± 1,612 watts, respectively Estimated average and actual average
power values were 2,547 ± 760 and 2,463 ± 753 watts, respectively.
The examples below all use a hypothetical vertical jump of 60 cm (0.6 meters or 23.5 inches) by a person 75 kg and 180 cm. As you can see, there are widely different results achieved. This is partly due to it not always being clear if peak power or average power is being estimated.
Lewis Formula
- Average power (W) = 1604 Watts
Johnson & Bahamonde Formula
- Average power (W) = 2487.5
Work by Dr John Garhammer, a biomechanist at the Department of Physical Education at California State University reveals some interesting comparisons between exercises in the development of power. ...In "A Review of Power Output Studies of Olympic and Powerlifting: Methodology, Performance, Prediction and Evaluation Test", elite Olympic lifters' and powerlifters' power outputs were as follows (w/kg = watts per kilo of body weight):
During Entire Snatch or Clean Pull Movements:
34.3 w/kg Men
21.8 w/kg Women
Second Pulls:
52.6 w/kg Men
39.2 w/kg Women
Squat and Deadlift:
12 w/kg Men
For female powerlifters, "estimates indicate that the corresponding values for women are 60-70% as great".
With this basic breakdown in mind, the power output comparisons of a 100-kilo male lifter in the clean, second pull and deadlift would be as follows.
Clean-------------3430 watts
Second Pull-----5260 watts
Deadlift----------1200 watts
Summary
Based on the research data provided in this post, the Vertical Jump may provide Power Output that is near the Olympic Movements.
However, Vertical Jumps do not generate more Power Output than that the Olympic Movements.
Vertical Jumps lag behind Olympic Movement in Power Output Watt Readings.
Last edited:
Tarzan
Level 6 Valued Member
Based on what @kennycro@@aol.com posted it seems that the output is a bit lower.
Maybe they did their sums on the joules over time over a longer test time with the vertical jump. Jumping up a set steps in a stadium would probably take you well past the optimal anaerobic training zone used by Oly lifters and the latter phases would burn energy like the afterburner on a jet engine. So the sum of joules burned over that extended (non optimal period) could start to sway the equations.
What I'm trying to say is that an extended jump session which is not really optimal for the most efficient training effect could really burn a lot of energy. One of those cases where people beat themselves up for minimal benefit.
Maybe they did their sums on the joules over time over a longer test time with the vertical jump. Jumping up a set steps in a stadium would probably take you well past the optimal anaerobic training zone used by Oly lifters and the latter phases would burn energy like the afterburner on a jet engine. So the sum of joules burned over that extended (non optimal period) could start to sway the equations.
What I'm trying to say is that an extended jump session which is not really optimal for the most efficient training effect could really burn a lot of energy. One of those cases where people beat themselves up for minimal benefit.
Kenny Croxdale
Level 7 Valued Member
This indicates you are addressing...
Excess Post Oxygen Consumption
This occurs with various type of High Intensity Interval Cardio (HIIT) or High Intensity Resistance Training (HIRT)
This increases the Metabolic Rate long after the workout is over. It amounts to "Overcharging your Metabolic Rate Credit Card".
As with all Credit Cards, you are allow to repay the money or in this case the energy you borrowed and used. However, metaphorically speaking, it is paid back with interest over time.
The Fat Burning Effects of HIIT and HIRT
That is one of the reasons individual interested in losing body fat/weight perform these type of High Intensity Training.
Last edited:
- Status