- Status
Sean M
Level 7 Valued Member
DFW is clean before each press. Likely because there is not a “ballistics day” - cleans are the ballistic.I notice that the Kettlebear Program programs a different sort of ladder than the one I am using for 'Dry Fighting Weight'-the Kettlebear Program has you doing only ONE clean per ladder of Double Clean and Press, for example: he writes only one clean on the second ladder, followed by two press. On DFW, I am doing a clean before each press.....I am doing too many cleans? Even if I am- it can't be a bad thing.....
"So, perform your Double Cleans & Presses, and immediately upon completion, perform your Double Front Squat set, then rest. Also, each comma represents a clean before the number of press reps eg. one press, one clean, two presses, one clean, three presses…"
Tirofijo
Level 6 Valued Member
I notice that the Kettlebear Program programs a different sort of ladder than the one I am using for 'Dry Fighting Weight'-the Kettlebear Program has you doing only ONE clean per ladder of Double Clean and Press, for example: he writes only one clean on the second ladder, followed by two press. On DFW, I am doing a clean before each press.....I am doing too many cleans? Even if I am- it can't be a bad thing.....
"So, perform your Double Cleans & Presses, and immediately upon completion, perform your Double Front Squat set, then rest. Also, each comma represents a clean before the number of press reps eg. one press, one clean, two presses, one clean, three presses…"
I like cleans so in my mind that's a good thing. But I am by no means an expert and there may be a reason to not clean before every press. From ROP and the Armor Building workout, I know that my press will fatigue and fail more quickly than the cleans if using the same amount of reps, so it's not the most limiting factor on C&Ps. It also gives the press a little rest and probably lets me complete more reps than if I just pressed one rep after another without the 'rest' of the clean. Probably. I've never tested that.
Regarding Kettlebear -
I read that article a few times last night and it seems the ladders/rungs are set up a little different from how I do them in ROP.
How I do them in ROP:
One C&P on right side, switch hands on fly and one C&P on left side. (one rung)
Put bell down. Do pull up or shake hands out. ("you go I go' tempo or something close to it.)
Two C&P on right sight, switch hands on fly and two C&P on left side. (two rungs)
Put bell down. Do pull up or shake hands out.
Three C&P on right side....etc.
Continue until I reach the number of rungs I'm doing (Five on a hard day in ROP). Then I take a longer break and start over at 1.
I read the Kettlebear program and it looks like -
One clean and one press, one clean and 2 presses, one clean and 3 presses, then immediately do a straight set of Double Front Squats, then rest. (eventually working up to 5 presses.)
That almost doesn't look like a ladder and instead is a straight set of presses with a few cleans in there. I may be missing something. I often am.
@KIWI5, if the Dry Fighting Weight program made it into our blog, I think you can rest assured it's a program that will deliver the results it promises. I recommend you do it as written and don't bother comparing it something else you found that happens to be similar in some way. Thinking is a distraction in this case - do the program, get the results, and then consider trying the other program if you wish.
JMO, YMMV.
-S-
JMO, YMMV.
-S-
Marc
Level 6 Valued Member
So true!
Once a programme is altered it is not the actual programme anymore!
It is something else. Most of the time worse.
KIWI5
Level 4 Valued Member
I am focused on 'DFW' but also enjoy reading about other programs - I'm certainly not confusing the two or trying to blend them! I'm loving DFW and am performing it as programmed- I have added some light rows/curls afterwards to balance out the pressing and I'm going with two days off after each session- so I've altered it slightly to suit my body. I'm still going to be 'crazy strong' when I finish it!
John Grahill
Level 8 Valued Member
Once again I think it comes down to the old "just do it as written".... I'm certainly no expert in programming and program designing but these instructors certainly are. The advantage of the SF philosophy is fullbody strengthening and getting away from what I describe as the "bicep tricep" mentality of bodybuilders (no disrespect to them, just not my thing).
In other words, for the most part a properly designed SF program will be beneficial for the whole body. If your pull up numbers increase, Ill bet you see improvement in the old "bis" ....
In other words, for the most part a properly designed SF program will be beneficial for the whole body. If your pull up numbers increase, Ill bet you see improvement in the old "bis" ....
Deleted member 316
Guest
The best part of a three days a week routine is I get to sleep in a couple days a week now. Even though it's only half an hour to an hour, you sure can feel the difference.
When I go back to S&S I may do three days during the week and play by ear on the weekends. I usually save the weekends for deadlifts and sledgehammer smashing because the noise isn't an issue because it's not three in the morning.
When I go back to S&S I may do three days during the week and play by ear on the weekends. I usually save the weekends for deadlifts and sledgehammer smashing because the noise isn't an issue because it's not three in the morning.
Kozushi
Level 7 Valued Member
Yes, and I've had this experience. I tried altering S&S to a heavy 2 hand swing followed by TGUs. It still yields results but it left my belly sagging out! 1 hand swings pull your midsection in. Also, you're obviously stronger if you're lifting the same weight with only one hand rather than two. This is crystal clear.
Any program is hard to follow - we're lifting weights here for crying out loud! This is the definition of working hard! Don't cut corners. Follow a program perfectly designed by experts and tested out by experts.
Kozushi
Level 7 Valued Member
What do you get out of sledge smashing? What is the use of such an exercise?
Deleted member 316
Guest
It feels good. It's just a great exercise all round. Works so many parts of the body. And I like to think of it as the yang to the kettlebell yin
Alan Mackey
Level 7 Valued Member
Weighted, explosive tai otoshi uchikomis. The perfect reverse swing.
Chopping wood with a heavy axe and sledge hammering a tire are two almost century long tested and proven exercises for fighters (boxers, wrestlers, judokas...).
Kozushi
Level 7 Valued Member
I remember swinging things when younger in order to improve my judo and MMA strength. I wasn't aware at the time that anyone else did it, felt like I was doing something dumb, and gave it up. Funny how common sense shouldn't be discarded in favour of "what everyone else is doing". Now it's trendy and there is probably science to back it up too.
Now I've got exercise maces - 10lbs and 25lbs, and I use them.
Tirofijo
Level 6 Valued Member
I just finished up Dry Fighting Weight, which was my first double KB program.
Couple of things I liked -
1) It's just the C&P and front squats. I didn't have to worry about double KB snatches. In my opinion, it's a good intro to double kb work.
2) You can use heavier bells than many (most?) of the other double KB programs. I used 24/20kgs bells (different sizes due to an injury on my left side. I ended up getting strong enough on my left side to sprinkle in sets with 24kg on my bad side.) Looks like I would have had to drop down to 16kg for a lot of other KB programs that feature complexes or snatches, etc. My goal is strength and size, so I didn't really want to drop down in bell size. (Not to say you can't get stronger and bigger using the 16kg, but you know...)
3) I felt like I was working hard. This is not an 'easy strength' program (at least the way I ran it.) Sometimes it's satisfying to know you've put forth a serious effort. (and even DJ mentions the hardest part of Easy Strength is trusting that it works.)
4) I got bigger. No stats but I can see it in the mirror. I ate everything in sight. (I didn't lose any weight but that was not my goal.)
5) I got stronger. I started with a shaky 28kg press with one arm and finished with a smooth 32kg press (which admittedly I had pressed a few months ago when I finished a round of ROP.) So it got me back to where I was previously. Still, I'm stronger in the press than I was 5 weeks ago.
Didn't like -
1) Slightly vague, which I'm not used to. You are told to do as many reps in a 30 minute window but don't grind and don't turn it into a met-con. I was able to avoid grinding out slow reps, but who knows if I turned it into a met-con. I was sweating profusely. Heart rate was elevated but not through the roof. I think I did okay, but there's some vagueness there. Not a big deal.
2) It's hard. See number 3 above. Accumulated fatigue was real and going into the last week I sorta dreaded the sessions. (That also had to do with the pressure I put on myself to improve my numbers each week. Take that pressure away and I might not have dreaded it.) I would not have liked to run the program any longer.
Overall, DFW was exactly what I was hoping for. I want to do it in the future when I can use 28kg bells for both arms.
Couple of things I liked -
1) It's just the C&P and front squats. I didn't have to worry about double KB snatches. In my opinion, it's a good intro to double kb work.
2) You can use heavier bells than many (most?) of the other double KB programs. I used 24/20kgs bells (different sizes due to an injury on my left side. I ended up getting strong enough on my left side to sprinkle in sets with 24kg on my bad side.) Looks like I would have had to drop down to 16kg for a lot of other KB programs that feature complexes or snatches, etc. My goal is strength and size, so I didn't really want to drop down in bell size. (Not to say you can't get stronger and bigger using the 16kg, but you know...)
3) I felt like I was working hard. This is not an 'easy strength' program (at least the way I ran it.) Sometimes it's satisfying to know you've put forth a serious effort. (and even DJ mentions the hardest part of Easy Strength is trusting that it works.)
4) I got bigger. No stats but I can see it in the mirror. I ate everything in sight. (I didn't lose any weight but that was not my goal.)
5) I got stronger. I started with a shaky 28kg press with one arm and finished with a smooth 32kg press (which admittedly I had pressed a few months ago when I finished a round of ROP.) So it got me back to where I was previously. Still, I'm stronger in the press than I was 5 weeks ago.
Didn't like -
1) Slightly vague, which I'm not used to. You are told to do as many reps in a 30 minute window but don't grind and don't turn it into a met-con. I was able to avoid grinding out slow reps, but who knows if I turned it into a met-con. I was sweating profusely. Heart rate was elevated but not through the roof. I think I did okay, but there's some vagueness there. Not a big deal.
2) It's hard. See number 3 above. Accumulated fatigue was real and going into the last week I sorta dreaded the sessions. (That also had to do with the pressure I put on myself to improve my numbers each week. Take that pressure away and I might not have dreaded it.) I would not have liked to run the program any longer.
Overall, DFW was exactly what I was hoping for. I want to do it in the future when I can use 28kg bells for both arms.
Last edited:
Deleted member 316
Guest
DFW does look intereting. I can't wait to give it a go.
- Status