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Nutrition Caffeine and conditioning

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D-Rock

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I remember awhile back @aciampa replied in a thread (couldn't find the thread) that being hopped up on caffeine all day predisposes one to burn sugar.

Just wondered if this would have any negative effect on conditioning and endurance?

Everyone totes the performance benefits of caffeine, but most of the studies seem to be one time events...what about chronic consumption??

Caffeine's effect on burning sugar and release of stress hormones makes me think it would predispose one to weight gain, but studies I have looked at have shown it to be weight neutral or lessen chances of obesity. Claims have also been made for health benefits.

I enjoy my cup of coffee, just wanted to start a discussion and see other people's experiences. Any weight gain? Decreased endurance or work capacity? Does the health benefits outweigh the risks?
 
Very very true. I had noticed I had different responses at certain times to different beverages and even coffee, even coffee from the same place! Sometimes nothing at all, sometimes jitters, inability to concentrate, and a crash, sometimes extreme drive. It really confused me, I now know it was in part due to inconsistent levels because of roast and method.

That is functional exercise and practical strength.
 
Hello,

@D-Rock
I drink coffee (4 - 5 expressos a day). Frankly, I did not notice a change in training or something. I even try to totally stop drinking coffee for a while, to "clean" my body. Then I took coffee again...and nothing changed. I guess some people are more coffee sensitive than others ?

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
I think the "all day" aspect is an important distinction. Many (most?) people drink coffee in the morning only, but others literally all day long and can't function without it.

One day I drank a standard cup of coffee and then measured my HR and HRV at 5-minute intervals. (HRV, for those not familiar, measures the variability of your HR which indicates the state of your autonomic nervous system -- sympathetic or "fight or flight" NS vs. parasympathetic or "rest and digest" NS.) Can't find the data, but if memory serves, my HR elevated about 5 BPM for 30 min, but my HRV indicated more sympathetic for more like 60 min. Based on this I am thinking that caffeine increases sympathetic NS activity and the response and is more lasting than you might feel by just your HR. Sympathetic NS dominance corresponds with stress hormones and sugar burning, so, something to think about. But again, 1-2 hours in the morning with normal coffee vs. 12-16 hours all day on Starbucks and 5-hour Energy are very different scenarios.

Overall I don't think it does any help or harm to endurance, work capacity, etc. I went off coffee entirely (did drink tea, but not much) for May-June this year, and while it was nice to break the dependency on it, I didn't feel like it brought me any great benefits. So, back to enjoying my morning coffee.
 
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@pet' thank you very much for sharing your experience.
I guess some people are more coffee sensitive than others ?
Yes, the pharmacogenomics can very wildy!
@Anna C thank you for the important distinction of two very different scenarios. Fantastic experiment, I had actually thought about trying the same thing if I ever got HRV equipment.
Based on this I am thinking that caffeine increases sympathetic NS activity
This is in line with the literature I have read.
Sympathetic NS dominance corresponds with stress hormones and sugar burning, so, something to think about.
Indeed, something to think about. In the midst of all the positives, I have often wondered about longterm implications, especially of scenario 2. Then Al's comment got me thinking about A+A, performance, and body composition.

I'd love to see a longterm study, not just a dose before a single athletic event.
 
By the way, I haven't experimented enough to draw any work capacity conclusions for myself.

Although I have observed that after increasing my walking/hiking for a couple weeks, I forget my coffee, reach for sugar less often, and don't get uncontrollably hungry when I don't eat for a few hours.

I am more of a "scenario 1" person with a couple cups in the morning, and every once in awhile one after lunch.
 
I think the timing of the coffee is important.

I was watching youtube science vids one time with my kids, they were doing a super critical caffeine extraction from coffee beans. Before they did it the scientist running the apparatus mentioned something about caffeine metabolism that I hadn't considered.

He said if you drink coffee at regular times throughout the day your body pre-empts the caffeine before you ingest is and your body makes chemicals which act as an antidote to the caffeine before you even drink it. The result is that when you drink the coffee the antidote is already in your system and the caffeine is neutralised fairly fast in your bloodstream.

Then he said if a regular coffee drinker has a cup at a time when their body isn't expecting it there will be no antidote circulating in the bloodstream and the caffeine will have a much greater effect and the person will get much bigger kick from the same dose of caffeine.

I've noticed that effect when I've had a cup late at night which I don't normally do.

I suppose that could be used to the advantage of anyone needing an extra boost.
 
Then he said if a regular coffee drinker has a cup at a time when their body isn't expecting it there will be no antidote circulating in the bloodstream and the caffeine will have a much greater effect and the person will get much bigger kick from the same dose of caffeine.
@Tarzan i have this exact response from time to time.

I drink a cup in the morning at work....
Sometimes, very rarely ill have a cupnaround 10:30 and every once in a while that 10:30 cup make me jittery.... I could never put my finger on it.

im not saying that is what happened to me but it is just an odd coincidence
 
There are lots of amazing plants out there in the world that have fascinating effects on our bodies. We evolved to consume plants and animals, and so our bodies are intimately entwined with them and in fact depend on them for survival and thriving. The mythologies of many cultures talk about a god teaching the secrets of pharmaceutical plants to medicine men and women. Even modern day drugs tend to be extracts from plants. The coffee bean is one of those amazing plants out there that works magic effects on our bodies and minds. My way of seeing coffee is as a gentle psychological irritant, a minor stress-creator that mildly alarms us and prods us to keep our minds and bodies busy and active. It's like in the old movies where the guy tries to wake up by slapping himself in the face and then splashing his face with water - this is what coffee is doing, but at an internal bio-chemical level. Lots of people have tried to find out if it is harmful, and it just simply isn't. It would be like saying walking outside with a cold wind in your face for 15 minutes is "harmful" - it just isn't really, it rather perks you up. Coffee is a great thing and a great mild daily medicine! Just watch its acidity which might irritate your stomach if you're susceptible to that!
 
Like exercise, relationships, and your job, it can be a mild stressor, eliciting positive effects; or a major stressor, eliciting negative effects.
 
Hello,

Like exercise, relationships, and your job, it can be a mild stressor, eliciting positive effects; or a major stressor, eliciting negative effects
Absolutely.

If my girlfriend takes a coffee, her hearts starts beating up...whereas I can go to sleep without problem...

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
Hello,

@aciampa
Yes, for me it is important. Indeed, SF blog and forum help me a lot to progress. For example, it helped me to create my current routine, manage with recovery, work on new skills and so on. Here I always find answers to my questions, with plenty of kind explanations.

Thus, these “Hello” and “Kind regards” are my [humble] way to express respect towards the forum and its members.

Kind regards,

Pet’
 
The result is that when you drink the coffee the antidote is already in your system and the caffeine is neutralised fairly fast in your bloodstream.

Interesting, I have not come across such endogenous direct antidotes but would like to know what they are if they exist. I do know the body can upregulate/downregulate certain processes, hormones, etc. to negate the effect maybe that is what the youtube scientist meant. It may also go the other direction, i.e. releasing dopamine in anticipation of coffee.

Lots of people have tried to find out if it is harmful, and it just simply isn't.
True, for the general population...
Although it is not without it's adverse effects. I very much like your analogy, equivalenice of an internal biological slap in the face! ha!

Good point, mild or major stressor. Much to @Anna C 's point, the dose makes the poison.

Still curious not so much as to the safety, but as to the effects (if any) on work capacity, sugar metabolism, and weight gain.
 
Etiquette indeed. What a great way to express thankfulness, humility, and respect. @pet' your kindness is noted and advice held in high regard.
 
Interesting, I have not come across such endogenous direct antidotes but would like to know what they are if they exist. I do know the body can upregulate/downregulate certain processes, hormones, etc. to negate the effect maybe that is what the youtube scientist meant. It may also go the other direction, i.e. releasing dopamine in anticipation of coffee.


True, for the general population...
Although it is not without it's adverse effects. I very much like your analogy, equivalenice of an internal biological slap in the face! ha!

Good point, mild or major stressor. Much to @Anna C 's point, the dose makes the poison.

Still curious not so much as to the safety, but as to the effects (if any) on work capacity, sugar metabolism, and weight gain.
If you're under stress you burn more calories, but this also increases your appentite, but it also gets you up and moving and doing things, so let's work with anecdotal evidence. I think it itself likely has no effect on weight gain or loss, but if it gets you up and moving around, it gets you in better shape, so it likely increases fat los a bit.
 
If you're under stress you burn more calories, but this also increases your appentite, but it also gets you up and moving and doing things, so let's work with anecdotal evidence. I think it itself likely has no effect on weight gain or loss, but if it gets you up and moving around, it gets you in better shape, so it likely increases fat los a bit.

Good explanation, thank you!
 
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