Other/Mixed Calculating workload

[Oscar]

Hi all, I would appreciate your comments on how to calculate the workload, or tonnage, of a workout.

Lets say your 1RM for a given lift is 110 kg. It is clear that doing 1 rep with 100 kg is a lot more effort than doing 2 reps with 50 kg, so the idea of multiplying reps x weight doesnt seem very useful to me.

So how would you estimate the workload, or how hard or easy has a given practice been?

 

[offwidth]

Hi all, I would appreciate your comments on how to calculate the workload, or tonnage, of a workout.

Lets say your 1RM for a given lift is 110 kg. It is clear that doing 1 rep with 100 kg is a lot more effort than doing 2 reps with 50 kg, so the idea of multiplying reps x weight doesnt seem very useful to me.

So how would you estimate the workload, or how hard or easy has a given practice been?

Well if you want to go all science and engineering... Work (effort) is defined by: W=Load (force) x distance.

Distance being highly variable in a training environment.

Simplistically...
A pull-up with chin to the bar will elicit less work than a pull-up with chest to the bar. Likewise swinging a KB to thigh height generates less work than one that is chest high.

Mr. Strong swings a 60kg bell knee high for 10 reps.
Mr. Weak swings a 32kg bell chest high for 10 reps.

Bust out the calculator...

But if you also want to know power... then you need a timer as well...

 

[Oscar]

@offwidth ok, but all things equal, how would you estimate it? Lets say your bench 1RM is 100 kg. Which of the following practices is more taxing, by how much and why?

Practice A:
4 sets of 5 reps, 70 kg.

Practice B:
4 sets of 3 reps, 85 kg.

 

[offwidth]

@offwidth ok, but all things equal, how would you estimate it? Lets say your bench 1RM is 100 kg. Which of the following practices is more taxing, by how much and why?

Practice A:
4 sets of 5 reps, 70 kg.

Practice B:
4 sets of 3 reps, 85 kg.

Simple math will tell you which is more work If the distance moved is equal in both A & B then A did more work.
Assuming the load moved was 50cm then A did 6,860 n-m of work, and B did 4,998 n-m

Now which was more 'taxing' based on your 'reserve' (100kg 1RM)? Probably many other variables at play here.

 

[Anna C]

I think tonnage is only useful within the context of a plan where your one variable is somewhat constant (or at least comparable within your data points, such as weeks), and you are manipulating another variable, such as volume only, or absolute weight only, from day to day or week to week.

So in your example of Practice A is more of a volume day and Practice B an intensity day. They're both hard in their own way, and no point in trying to compare the stress of them.

The important things: what is the program, what is the variable that is driving progress, how do you know it's working... etc.

 

[LukeV]

You can use a 1RM calculator to compare sets of varying weights and reps, eg 75kg x 10 = 100kg x 1. This is imperfect but will probably do for your purpose

 

[Bret S.]

They're both hard in their own way, and no point in trying to compare the stress of them.

+1
Nothing to be gained scratching your head with a pencil as the proof lies in the results, sure I can calculate tonnage doing VWC but how accurate is it?
Not very in my estimation, when you snatch a weight up there is tonnage to be calculated, when you return the weight to starting position there is also tonnage to be calculated, picking up the bell to start and returning it to the floor has tonnage to be calculated.
Even if I wanted to calculate all these factors, and there are many more in play as speed and inertia come to mind it would ultimately be a useless trivial pursuit as it's much easier adjusting load, reps, density etc. and observing results. Coaxing adaptations from the body in the end is an art, not a science. There are too many factors to attempt to calculate. Test..record results..test..record results..test.....

 

[Antti]

A good thread with good questions.

I write down first on paper all of my training, and then I write it down in an Excel file. I have the program calculate total volume and average intensity. But it doesn't tell the whole truth.

Even the simple option of doing three sets of five vs five sets of three makes the simple equations somewhat inaccurate.

One option would be to take into account density, as in how much time did it take you to do the lifts. That extra information makes 3*5 vs 5*3 more comparable. But I couldn't do it in the commercial gym. For a set, sure, but not the whole session.

But the main point for me has been writing down what I've done, and then later comparing my current training to that. I try to do more in a certain timespan than I've done before. For example, in each month either the volume at a certain average intensity or the average intensity at a certain volume should go up. At the most simple I look at a weight I've used, what sets and reps I've done, and how it felt. If I can do the same and feel it was significantly easier, good job. If I do more sets or reps, even better.

Even without sophisticated programming, writing down what I've done and just doing more in the next appropriate opportunity is a simple way to make sure I progress.

 

[Oscar]

Thanks all for your comments, what you are saying makes sense.

@LukeV yes, that´s a good idea, doing the calculation based on how many reps one could do with that given weight, based on the RM estimations. Even though the tonnage of 10RM is a lot higher than 1RM, the impact on the body might be similar for different reasons.

@Anna C and @Antti , I think you are right. My question probably goes too deep into programming and requires a lot of knowledge and other variables to answer. For complex programs with volume days, intensity days, light days etc its probably pointless to do this calculation.

There is another scenario where I think this question gains importance, which is "easy strength" programs. What weight is reasonable if you will do 3x3, or 2x5, or 5x2? In particular, if you want to be relatively fresh the next day.

Maybe the concept of easy strength is that it should be so easy that these questions do not matter: just go lighter or do less. But I have read a few times of people overdoing it on easy strength, so calculating the required weights and sets might not be so easy. In my case, I have ended up with tight muscles during S&S a few times, so calculating the progression from one bell to the other has not been easy.

 

[North Coast Miller]

Hi all, I would appreciate your comments on how to calculate the workload, or tonnage, of a workout.

Lets say your 1RM for a given lift is 110 kg. It is clear that doing 1 rep with 100 kg is a lot more effort than doing 2 reps with 50 kg, so the idea of multiplying reps x weight doesnt seem very useful to me.

So how would you estimate the workload, or how hard or easy has a given practice been?

I've been thinking about this and cannot come up with a formula that can even represent a simple example:

10 reps @70% RM vs 5 reps @ 90%RM.

I'd say for sure the 5 reps would be more challenging, but what to use as a multiplier?

Another strategy might be to assign a value to a given set based on RPE x %RM.

So if you take a set of 8 reps to tech failure at 70% and a set of 6 reps and hold one or two in the tank at 80%, the number of reps don't even get counted. The first set has a (somewhat arbitrary) value of 9, the second set perhaps a 7. Multiply by the %RM of the set.

Relative values of 63 and 56.

The problem with this is the relative values eliminate reference to load and intensity. It might roughly correspond to amount of work done but not to the expected adaptations.

While I use a bunch of different strategies, most often I use a three set approach, all done to tech failure, where the first set is done at approx 70%, the second at approx 80, and the last at 90, roughly corresponding to %rep max count 10, 7, 4. The last set normally includes a drop set that will increase TUL and add 4-6 reps to the last set.

If I get much more than those numbers on any set, I advance the load incrementally for all three.

If its a static load, I'll try to begin with a weight I can hit for 8-10, no more. First set I leave one in the tank, second set to tech failure, third set to tech failure gets followed by a pair of Rest/Pause sets spaced out at 15 seconds each.

Once I get to 10 reps on the second set I've hit the limit, following which if my numbers for the second or third set (excluding the R/P) go up any higher, I increase the load.

 

[Deleted member 5559]

Intensity Number of Lifts (INOL)

 

[ClaudeR]

I agree with the posts that go into the direction of “it’s pointless really”...
However this might be a good use for the accelerometer/power device that we discussed some months back?
That will give a repeatable total number. Although itself the number is meaningless, it is repeatable so it should give a good indication of total “workload” changes (and does all of the math for you with many variables, like @offwidth was mentioning)