Kettlebell Can / Should I Jerk?

[lais817]

Hi all, had a play with the clean and jerk, mainly because I was disappointed I hadn't increased my RM on the 24kg press lately. Tried it with the 2x16kg and felt pretty good, then tried the 2x24kg.

Could I get some honest critique please folks? Mainly on mobilty i guess. If my form is good enough with the 2x24kg I might practice it for a while before diving into a program with it, ideally to put on some muscle and up the strength.

2x16kg

30 November 2022

C+J @2×24kg

youtube.com

2x24kg

Aside for the terrible drop from the rack to the ground on the last rep of the 24s, and almost over balancing on the previous rep, I was happy enough, but happy to be disabused of that as well!

 

[Dydo]

As an absolute beginner in this sport, I cannot give an opinion, although your performance looks pretty good to me. However, I compare it with what I have seen on the videos of the Russians performing GS. It strikes me that they lower the weight on their chest much faster. You descend much more slowly, which sucks your power for the next push.
However, it is possible that there is a recommendation on the forum for a slower descent that I haven't read.

 

[Anna C]

Looks good to me @lais817. Keep the kettlebells in a nice tight rack, well connected to your torso for the most efficient drive and launch.

As far as lowering the weight, yes you could lower it quicker, and with hardstyle we normally have a dip on the catch as well. Generally the lowering is a bit more controlled than with GS, but you might aim for halfway between what you are doing there, and GS. I would just add the dip on the catch and try to make the landing take as little energy as possible.

Mobility looks good! As your shoulders become more confident with the top position you'll find you can go more directly to it with less resistance/hesitation at the very top.

 

[ntapsak]

To add to Anna's points, I would also recommend keeping your foot position the same width for both the clean and jerk. Find one that's comfortable, move your toes out a little if you need or do whatever else to stance so that you can keep consistent footing.

I got a lot of excellent advice over a year and a half ago on C&J technique, some of it may be helpful to you:
Kettlebell - Double C&J critique

It's been a year and a half since I started working primarily with this lift, and I'm nowhere near mastery. Even though I'm training with GS methodology right now, there's benefit to going heavier and using hardstyle technique. I would also highly recommend working with your 16s to really dial in technique. Do some longer sets with those. Master the catch. There are a lot of moving parts, but it's fun and rewarding, and should definitely help the press. It definitely put some meat on my bones. I look like a twig in the videos from the above thread, haha.

 

[Mark Limbaga]

Let us address your first concern..

Did the RPE by any chance go down? Did you manage to improve technique? If yes then that's a win..

You already got some great pointers for the c and j..

The one thing I can tell you is be patient but once it's go time, you have to commit to the rep..

You can run an easy strength type plan for the C and J while working on your technique and building overall strength and muscle...

 

[Steve Freides]

As an absolute beginner in this sport, I cannot give an opinion, although your performance looks pretty good to me. However, I compare it with what I have seen on the videos of the Russians performing GS. It strikes me that they lower the weight on their chest much faster. You descend much more slowly, which sucks your power for the next push.
However, it is possible that there is a recommendation on the forum for a slower descent that I haven't read.

We are, in general, striving for an inefficient style while GS is striving for efficiency. We generally aim for 7-8 on a scale of 1-10 in terms of effort, and it's this reduction in effort, but only to a degree, that allows us to achieve more repetitions.

-S-

 

[Halfakneecap]

I’m new to C&J myself so cant give much advice but looks good. I just bought RMF, a Geoff neupert program exclusively about C&J. Highly recommend it. The videos are gold. I think my thoracic mobility is pretty good but some of the exercises in there for the jerk I need work on.

 

[lais817]

I’m new to C&J myself so cant give much advice but looks good. I just bought RMF, a Geoff neupert program exclusively about C&J. Highly recommend it. The videos are gold. I think my thoracic mobility is pretty good but some of the exercises in there for the jerk I need work on.

All the RMF emails from Geoff were what put it into my mind I reckon, I've never had much interest in the move before. And now I've missed his Black Friday special...

 

[lais817]

Let us address your first concern..

Did the RPE by any chance go down? Did you manage to improve technique? If yes then that's a win..

You already got some great pointers for the c and j..

The one thing I can tell you is be patient but once it's go time, you have to commit to the rep..

You can run an easy strength type plan for the C and J while working on your technique and building overall strength and muscle...

Hi Mark, RPE with the 24kg on the right did go down, but stayed with 1 rep only. The LHS I'm thinking could be more of a technique/groove issue as much as a strength deficiency.

I've been running through Neupert's Easy Muscle with the 2x 16kg, and the RPE and RM with those has definitely improved, along with a bit of upper body development, which I'm happy with. The reason I was disappointed with the 24kg RM not going up was I wanted to use them for my next program instead if having to splash out and buy some 20kg bells.

 

[lais817]

To add to Anna's points, I would also recommend keeping your foot position the same width for both the clean and jerk. Find one that's comfortable, move your toes out a little if you need or do whatever else to stance so that you can keep consistent footing.

I got a lot of excellent advice over a year and a half ago on C&J technique, some of it may be helpful to you:
Kettlebell - Double C&J critique

It's been a year and a half since I started working primarily with this lift, and I'm nowhere near mastery. Even though I'm training with GS methodology right now, there's benefit to going heavier and using hardstyle technique. I would also highly recommend working with your 16s to really dial in technique. Do some longer sets with those. Master the catch. There are a lot of moving parts, but it's fun and rewarding, and should definitely help the press. It definitely put some meat on my bones. I look like a twig in the videos from the above thread, haha.

Thanks for the tips mate, I've been doing a lot of C+P lately, and usually keep the same stance with it, I guess getting used to the mechanics of the C+J I defaulted to moving my feet.

As you say, there is a lot of moving parts, and I like the recommendation to work on the movement first, then plug it into a program.

 

[lais817]

Looks good to me @lais817. Keep the kettlebells in a nice tight rack, well connected to your torso for the most efficient drive and launch.

As far as lowering the weight, yes you could lower it quicker, and with hardstyle we normally have a dip on the catch as well. Generally the lowering is a bit more controlled than with GS, but you might aim for halfway between what you are doing there, and GS. I would just add the dip on the catch and try to make the landing take as little energy as possible.

Mobility looks good! As your shoulders become more confident with the top position you'll find you can go more directly to it with less resistance/hesitation at the very top.

Thanks Anna, I've just looked at the SFG2 technique videos and yes, there is a dip on the catch as well, I'll work on dialling that in as well. Working on the rack with the 24kgs, I have no idea how people are racking 32kgs and above!

 

[Halfakneecap]

All the RMF emails from Geoff were what put it into my mind I reckon, I've never had much interest in the move before. And now I've missed his Black Friday special...

@Geoff Neupert may take pity on your soul! But it’s not that expensive really imho. I’ve got Giant, Strong, kb express, and kb Ultra, and I think they are worth every cent. This whole year I’ve done only Geoff’s programs and I’ve had steady progress. It did suck having to buy 2x28kg bells though, because 2x24 feels light now haha

 

[lais817]

@Geoff Neupert may take pity on your soul! But it’s not that expensive really imho. I’ve got Giant, Strong, kb express, and kb Ultra, and I think they are worth every cent. This whole year I’ve done only Geoff’s programs and I’ve had steady progress. It did suck having to buy 2x28kg bells though, because 2x24 feels light now haha

Good problem to have IMHO! I've already got the Giant, Easy Muscle and Strong! so I feel like I shouldn't get any more of his programs until I finish the ones I have!

 

[Mark Limbaga]

Hi Mark, RPE with the 24kg on the right did go down, but stayed with 1 rep only. The LHS I'm thinking could be more of a technique/groove issue as much as a strength deficiency.

I've been running through Neupert's Easy Muscle with the 2x 16kg, and the RPE and RM with those has definitely improved, along with a bit of upper body development, which I'm happy with. The reason I was disappointed with the 24kg RM not going up was I wanted to use them for my next program instead if having to splash out and buy some 20kg bells.

Ok so I'm assuming you've done 8 weeks of easy muscle,

Some other options you may consider.. have you thought about running a different double bell plan to further own the 16s?

Or rerun easy muscle but use pike pushups for the next block?

 

[lais817]

Ok so I'm assuming you've done 8 weeks of easy muscle,

Some other options you may consider.. have you thought about running a different double bell plan to further own the 16s?

Or rerun easy muscle but use pike pushups for the next block?

I'm on week 8 of easy muscle A, so just the C+P with pullups at the end. I was thinking of running through the Giant 1.1 and 1.2 with the 16kg over Xmas to take advantage of the calorie surplus, and then seeing where I'm at with the 24s again after that.

I'm open to suggestions though, I have an 8, 12, 2x16, 2x24 and a 32kg. No injuries or restrictions.

 

[Mark Limbaga]

I'm on week 8 of easy muscle A, so just the C+P with pullups at the end. I was thinking of running through the Giant 1.1 and 1.2 with the 16kg over Xmas to take advantage of the calorie surplus, and then seeing where I'm at with the 24s again after that.

I'm open to suggestions though, I have an 8, 12, 2x16, 2x24 and a 32kg. No injuries or restrictions.

That is a better idea so you can further own your 16s..

Once done perhaps get back to us then let's see what would be the next step

 

[lais817]

That is a better idea so you can further own your 16s..

Once done perhaps get back to us then let's see what would be the next step

Sounds like a good plan