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Can someone summarize what Q&D, S&S, and AXE are meant to accomplish? What end state is each designed to bring you to?

Hi, isn’t slow twitch muscle fiber hypertrophy method a glycolytic protocol?
I don't believe so. At least not true Glycolytic training.

It's covered in a 3-part article series.

I believe @Bauer recently reposted them in another thread.
 
Actually, you can gain some muscle and lose fat when you move toward the right (Strength Aerobics, Metal Heart, Q&D).

But those who think S&S is all you need to lose fat and gain muscle will be sorely disappointed.
Agreed. I got fairly lean using blocks of Q and D alternated with S and S along with using the double C and PP following KB strong
 
Q&D, S&S, AXE



You will find quite a bit in these articles.
 
Good question.
In training it seems pretty glycolytic. But AFAIK the targeted adaptation is not so much about building glycolytic capacity, but about building ST fibers - and because slow twitch muscles come pre-equipped with mitochondria this should then help with more aerobic capacity in competition.

Long rests, limited ROM, and lighter %RM seem to play role here, too: How to Build Your Slow Fibers, Part I | StrongFirst
This baffles me. Although I don’t need to worry as a novice, theoretically while going to failure (as much as you can) your fast twitch fibers should also be recruited towards the end of your sets and hence I think this protocol will be quite glycolytic even w long rest periods. But I don’t want to create a rabbit hole here, I have so many novice priorities that, I don’t need to worry about training slow twitch fibers even a bit…
 
isn’t slow twitch muscle fiber hypertrophy method a glycolytic protocol?

Hypertrophy Glycolygic Protocol

Yes, Hypertrophy/Bodybuilging primarily utilize the Glycolytic Energy System.

The Slow Twitch are work when Higher Repetitions are performed.

The Three Metabolic Energy Systems

Glycolysis is the predominant energy system used for all-out exercise lasting from 30 seconds to about 2 minutes...

Traditional Bodybuilding/Hypertrophy Training

Moderate to High Repetitions


Moderate to Higher Repetition in a Bodybuilding/Hypertrophy Sets end up talking over 30 seconds with High Repetition and even longer.

The Standard Repetitions recommended for Hypertrophy are 8 - 12 Per Set; placing them in the Glycolytic Energy System

Thus, Bodybuilding/Hypertrophy Training primarily engages and utilizes the Glycolytic Energy System.

As the Repetition/Time increase in an Exercise Set, there is a shift from Type IIb/x to Type IIa Muscle Fiber to Type I.

With Higher Repetition in the Exercise Set neither Type IIb/x nor Type IIa are invovled.

The Slow Twitch Muscle are completely innervated, being worked, trained and developed.

Thus, with fairly intense training for Moderate to High Repetition Bodybuilding/Hypertrophy there is a shift in which Muscle Fiber are engaged; a downsifting of Muscle Fiber involvement.

Short Rest Periods beween Hypertrophy/Bodybuilding primarily enage Slow Twitch Muscle Fiber, develpe them.

Type IIb/x Super Fast > Type IIa > Type l Slow Twitch

Providing the Moderate to High Repetition are maintained with No Pause taken between Repetition, Lactate (Not Lactic Acid) increases; producing a downstream anabolic, muslce building effect.

Any Pause between Repetition turns the Exercise Set into Cluster Set Training; minimizing the increase in Lactate, damening the anabolic effect.

The downside of the increase in Lactate production is it decrease the Strengths (Maximum Strength, Power and Speed).

Summary

1) Lactate Production is good for Hypertrophy/Bodybuilding.

2) Lactate Production is bad for training the Various Strength.

A word of caution. Indiviuals who only perform a Hypertrophy/Bodybuilding Training Program gain size at the expense of the Strength.

3) Determine your objective and use the right Protocol Tool for the job.

Another Hypertrophy/Bodybuilding Alternative

This has been addressed multiple time on this forum.

Cluster Set Hypertrophy/Bodybuilding Training

Dr Jonathan Oliver;s Research Training Objective was to find a method that allowed athletes to maintain Maximum Strength, Power and/or Speed during their competive season while increasing muscle mass (Hypertrophy)

Oliver's research determined that Cluster Set Hypertrophy/Bodybuilding Training ensured muscle mass was gain along with Maximum Strength, Power and/or Speed. I have the reseach data on it.

There is an over simplified synoposis. The research goes into to other details that need to be implemented for optimzing it.

The Ketogenic Diet And Training

On a side note, since I am on The Ketogenic Diet due to a metabolic condition, I cannot utilize the Glycogen Energy System effectively.

Training on The Ketogenic Diet is most effective for training/sports that utilize either the Phosphagen Energy System or Aerobic Energy System.

Cluster Set Training revolves around cluster of Repetition (5 or less) performed, followed by a Rest between Sets of around 10 seconds to maybe a minute. Then it is repeated.

Thus, one Cluster Set could be 4 Cluster of 5 Repetition, with Short Rest between them, until all 4 of the 5 Repetition Cluster are performed. That is one Cluster Set of 20 Reps.

Take 3 minutes Rest, then perform a few more Clusters.

Evey Minute On The Minute Train is a good example of Cluster Set Training.

This allows an individual to clear the Lactate and produce more force (Maximum Strength, Power and/or Speed).

Cluster Set Hypertrophy Training is for effective gaining size. However, the Traditional Hypertrophy/Bodybuilding Protocol is more effective due to the production of Lactate, which triggers a downstream anabolic effect.
 
while going to failure (as much as you can) your fast twitch fibers should also be recruited towards the end of your sets
Not Necessarily

Fast Twitch Muscle Fiber are depleted quickly, in 10 second or less in highly intensive movements.

In highly intenstive movements there is a down shifting of Muscle Fiber Type...

Type IIb/x Super Fast > Type IIa Fast > Type l Slow Twitch

Thus, the closer you near failure the more of the Slow Twitch Muscle Fiber are innervated and engage; not the Fast Twitch.

However, if you are using let's say a load in a movement that is 40% of your 1 Repetition Max, the Muscle Fiber Firing Sequence changes...

Type l Slow > Type IIa Fast >TwitchType IIb/x Super Fast

Hennemans's Size Principle

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The size principle states that motor units will be recruited in order of size from smallest to largest depending upon the intensity. When considering the various properties of the motor units this makes sense. The small units don’t produce much force, they are slow to act, and they are resistant to fatigue. The larger units produce a lot of force, they react quickly, but they are easily fatigued.
 
There was a thread on this with some impressive pics, starting from here:

@RusticBohemian
"Can someone summarize what Q&D, S&S, and AXE are meant to accomplish? What end state is each designed to bring you to?"

Here is how Pavel summarized them

Source: The Quick and the Dead vs Strong Endurance™—What is the Difference? | StrongFirst

S&S is a more complete program in terms of warm-up and mobility prescriptions. And it is intended to facilitare more muscle growth (at least for beginners):


I had a similar question when Q&D came out and tried to sort my thoughts in this post, outlining some differences between programs and why S&S might be better suited for beginners. (Since AXE and other materials have came out, this would be a bit shorter if I wrote it today.)
Great information.

Thank you!
 
S&S: get good at swings and getups
AXE: get good at a lot of swings
Q&D: get good at powerful swings and pushups.
Well, both AXE and Q&D are adaptable to different drills (I prefer snatches and double cleans over swings). And I'd add that with Q&D 044, I'm going to be doing longer sets up to 15 reps, have the grip challenge of consecutive snatch sets on the same hand with short rest, and I'm going to be sucking wind and fighting fatigue to maintain power output throughout a session. Whereas with A+A/AXE, I'm going to be doing longer sessions, but shorter sets with more complete recovery and a lower overall level of exertion/stress.

However, I really like this answer because it focuses on the specific parameters of each program. When I'm choosing a program, that's what I mainly focus on because it's what I'm actually going to be doing in my training, and what I can directly observe.

Sure, I like for there to be a plausible explanation for what physiological effects a program might have and the mechanisms by which it leads to those effects, but I tend to mostly ignore physiology and look at training through a black box, stimulus and response lens. I have no direct way of observing or evaluating any physiological processes involved in training -- only subjective experience and empirical observation. So I don't separate physiological adaptations from the mechanics of the programming.

It's like the line from Taleb that Pavel is fond of quoting:
We are built to be dupes for theories. But theories come and go; experience stays. Explanations change all the time, and have changed all the time in history (because of causal opacity, the invisibility of causes) with people involved in the incremental development of ideas thinking they always had a definitive theory; experience remains constant.
Pavel also uses a line from Michael Crichton's Sphere to emphasize the value of a practical, empirical mindset:
Understanding is a delaying tactic...Do you want to understand how to swim, or do you want to jump in and start swimming? Only people who are afraid of the water want to understand it. Other people jump in and get wet.
That doesn't mean I'm completely uninterested in the theory or physiology, or dismiss anyone else who wants to explore it more deeply than I do. But I mostly just practice the kind of work I want to get better at, that makes me feel good, and that I enjoy.
 
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When I'm choosing a program, that's what I mainly focus on because it's what I'm actually going to be doing in my training, and what I can directly observe.
For sure, like Peter Drucker said "You can't manage what you can't measure".

I'm hesitant to rely on "trust me, these mechanical explanations are legit" since they are so commonly used by charlatans to explain why their special patented system is superior despite not actually improving any measurable metric. Are they important? sure probably, but at the end of the day if you are training your mitochondrial respiration rate or something and it isn't showing an improvement in any tangible measurable sense of your training, it probably isn't doing anything.

Humans are complex systems. You have inputs, a black box, and outputs. Sure you can understand parts and pieces of the black box, but as a whole? It is unknowable. Thankfully you do know the inputs and the outputs (mostly).
 
This baffles me. Although I don’t need to worry as a novice, theoretically while going to failure (as much as you can) your fast twitch fibers should also be recruited towards the end of your sets and hence I think this protocol will be quite glycolytic even w long rest periods. But I don’t want to create a rabbit hole here, I have so many novice priorities that, I don’t need to worry about training slow twitch fibers even a bit…
At the end of a long submaximal set, the fast twitch will be cycling in and out as creatine get rephosphorylated, and as type 2 fibers recover and exhaust. Unfortunately they are somewhat self-limiting as the inorganic phosphate from CrP metabolism reduces force potential ofvthe very muscles that generated the waste.

So while they are recruited and a lot of effort is being expended, the total % of possible active type 2 fibers is decreasing, as well as the amount of force they can generate. This is why that type of training is so inefficient for type 2 strength improvement.
 
They're all under the same umbrella of Strong Endurance (Anti-Glycolytic Training).

This slide from a webinar with Brett Jones talking about Strength Aerobics (SA) for Certified Instructors sums it up.

View attachment 23107
Where would aerobic LSD training fall in? My understanding is that it is a form of slow twitch training.
 
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