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Can someone summarize what Q&D, S&S, and AXE are meant to accomplish? What end state is each designed to bring you to?

Anna C said:
I'm stealing a quote from @Derek Toshner on a Facebook thread this morning in answer to a similar question. He said, "I’ve become a HUGE advocate for A+A training (alactic movement improving the aerobic system). Explosive movement / quick lift has an inertia effect on the heart. When you do your 1-5 reps and set it down, HR continues to climb. When HR settles, repeat the effort. The average ends up being Zone 2 cardio, which is what the endurance world thrives on for base building of outstanding capacity. However you recruit strength muscles, so you’re not just building endurance, but also strength. This is what high intense interval training was attempting to do in the 2000’s but failed because it was too glycolytic (acid building). We were never working pure strength or pure endurance, just something in the middle; results were capped. Great endurance athletes, like alpinist Mark Twight, went back to steady state zone 2 because glycolytic a#@ kickers in the gym weren’t the fast track they thought it should’ve been.
I still do some steady zone 2, and some strength grinds with heavy weight, but 80% of my training revolves around A+A. I am still quite strong, and my endurance capacity is better than ever. I feel better than I did in my late 20’s and 30’s, and truly believe I’m more athletic now."

To learn from Derek directly, check out StrongFirst's All-Terrain Conditioning seminar. There are two scheduled for Feb 2024; one in the U.S. and one in Europe. I have a thread about the course here.
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But what about stroke volume and the eccentric hypertrophy of the heart and and... Just joking, but this quote here is something I'd have liked seeing in the recent topic on cardiovascular health gains from strength training vs traditional cardio. But I needn't worry, discussions like that are perennial.
 
Anna C said:
...This is what high intense interval training was attempting to do in the 2000’s but failed because it was too glycolytic (acid building).
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I'd love to see relatively granular clinical research on this subject similar to what Tabata did using several protocols to sus out the response to different variables.
 
Anna C said:
I'm stealing a quote from @Derek Toshner on a Facebook thread this morning in answer to a similar question. He said, "I’ve become a HUGE advocate for A+A training (alactic movement improving the aerobic system). Explosive movement / quick lift has an inertia effect on the heart. When you do your 1-5 reps and set it down, HR continues to climb. When HR settles, repeat the effort. The average ends up being Zone 2 cardio, which is what the endurance world thrives on for base building of outstanding capacity. However you recruit strength muscles, so you’re not just building endurance, but also strength. This is what high intense interval training was attempting to do in the 2000’s but failed because it was too glycolytic (acid building). We were never working pure strength or pure endurance, just something in the middle; results were capped. Great endurance athletes, like alpinist Mark Twight, went back to steady state zone 2 because glycolytic a#@ kickers in the gym weren’t the fast track they thought it should’ve been.
I still do some steady zone 2, and some strength grinds with heavy weight, but 80% of my training revolves around A+A. I am still quite strong, and my endurance capacity is better than ever. I feel better than I did in my late 20’s and 30’s, and truly believe I’m more athletic now."

To learn from Derek directly, check out StrongFirst's All-Terrain Conditioning seminar. There are two scheduled for Feb 2024; one in the U.S. and one in Europe. I have a thread about the course here.
Click to expand...
Interesting, we're crossing the sources here... This goes along with Al Campia and Harald Motz said : their A+A training is also / has replaced their "pure" strength training, especially with heavy snatches.
 
Matt_lux said:
Interesting, we're crossing the sources here... This goes along with Al Campia and Harald Motz said : their A+A training is also / has replaced their "pure" strength training, especially with heavy snatches.
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Agree. And it's not that much different from my own training these last 4 years, which has been 75% barbell weightlifting, which in itself is at about 75% "moving the bar fast" with snatch, clean, jerk, and variations. And I feel quite strong. Objective measures of strength, when I do them (i.e. test my deadlift or press) support this feeling. :)
 
offwidth said:
You aren’t going to see any WSM contenders who are also serious ultra runners, but there is plenty of open ground between those two extremes…
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silveraw said:
3:15 marathon time and also WSM winner.
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A 3:15 marathon is pretty middling among "serious" runners. I ran several half-marathons and my predicted marathon time was around 3:15. When I say middling, I mean perhaps 75% percentile or something like that, between mid-pack and elite. That was about how I used to finish races, too, with "respectable" times but nowhere near the front. I remember setting my lifetime 5K PR at age 45 at a local race, 300 or so runners, and even in the 40-50 age group, I was 9th.

All the weight lifters want me to gain 15 lbs and all the runners thought I should lose 15 lbs. ...

-S-
 
Steve Freides said:
A 3:15 marathon is pretty middling among "serious" runners. I ran several half-marathons and my predicted marathon time was around 3:15. When I say middling, I mean perhaps 75% percentile or something like that, between mid-pack and elite. That was about how I used to finish races, too, with "respectable" times but nowhere near the front. I remember setting my lifetime 5K PR at age 45 at a local race, 300 or so runners, and even in the 40-50 age group, I was 9th.

All the weight lifters want me to gain 15 lbs and all the runners thought I should lose 15 lbs. ...

-S-
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Hooper ( guy in question ) ran a 3:24 at a bw of around 220, which I think is pretty good, since I'm guessing he was just screwing around, checking it off a list.
 
Don Fairbanks said:
Hooper ( guy in question ) ran a 3:24 at a bw of around 220, which I think is pretty good, since I'm guessing he was just screwing around, checking it off a list.
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I think he was being serious. At least according to this interview:
He started out running 10Ks, and within six months, at around 220 pounds, had trained enough to take on his first marathon. His inaugural marathon in Ottawa in 2016 also happened to yield his best time, at 3:24.

"I was a good marathon runner, but not a great marathon runner," he says. "I wanted to qualify for the Boston marathon, which was 3:05 or less, and I just couldn't do it."
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After that, he got into Strongman gaining a lot of weight. So pointing at him and saying "WSM and marathon runner" is kind of disingenuous. He is a WSM who USED to be a marathon runner. Could he still run one? I have no idea. But he's 320+ pounds now, and he's talked about having sleep apnea because of all the weight gain. So my guess is that his long distance running has taken quite a hit.
 
’Good’ and ‘Great’ are often a matter of definition, context and perspective. In the world of real marathon seriousness 3:24 might not be considered good at all. It’s certainly better than I could do these days… but good? Meh…
But hey… hats off to the guy.
 
justinr said:
I think he was being serious. At least according to this interview:

After that, he got into Strongman gaining a lot of weight. So pointing at him and saying "WSM and marathon runner" is kind of disingenuous. He is a WSM who USED to be a marathon runner. Could he still run one? I have no idea. But he's 320+ pounds now, and he's talked about having sleep apnea because of all the weight gain. So my guess is that his long distance running has taken quite a hit.
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Yeah, poor choice of words on my part, but I bet he knew he had a ceiling at that weight and event.
Guy plays football, then becomes a strength coach for a Canadian pro bb team, then diets down for a body building show, then runs some marathons ( gathers good, practical knowledge for work ), then gets a master's in kinesiology, then onto powerlifting and strongman and his own kines. clinic. Well rounded.
 
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