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Kettlebell Can you actually hit the 5 min mark just doing 2 Handed Swings?

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Benedictine Monk

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It seems to me that doing it with 2 handed swings decreases the rest periods to the point where you've got almost no rest. With 1 hand swings, you can do L/R with no rest and at least one hand and arm get a rest during the other's set.

Just curious if anyone keeps to the time limits regards of style of swing, or if they adjust based on whether its exclusively 2HS or not.
 
S&S is very achievable with one hand swings. If you were to swing nonstop at the average rate at which someone swings a kettlebell you can do 100 swings in 2.5 min. That's with the average 10 swings per 15 seconds. The 5 min to achieve the standard is working at a 1:1 ratio work:rest.

So I'm almost always a person that hates when on a forum someone just replies with something along the lines of "just do the program"
However, you have made several posts now about doing 2 hand swings in place of single hand swings. If you want the results promised in the book you have to follow the program. That's not to say you won't get similar results if you tweak it slightly. You just won't receive the advertised outcomes. Will you increase your strength and conditioning by working toward swinging a 32kg or 48kg bell? Absolutely ! It's just not the same as being able to do it with one hand.

Just keep plugging away at it. You wI'll get there.
 
S&S is very achievable with one hand swings. If you were to swing nonstop at the average rate at which someone swings a kettlebell you can do 100 swings in 2.5 min. That's with the average 10 swings per 15 seconds. The 5 min to achieve the standard is working at a 1:1 ratio work:rest.

[snip]

Just keep plugging away at it. You wI'll get there.

Understood. I have a nasty case of tennis/golfer's elbow which is on the mend but I'm loathe to overtax my grip too quickly with one hand swings. I'm currently using a 20kg on both exercises
and about to start moving up to a 24kg on the TGU. To be on the safe side, I'd like to get my 2HS to 24 kg for 100 reps before attempting a 1HS again, whether with a 16kg or higher. Hence, my
question about the 2HS. Also, Pavel makes a comment in S&S about "when your 1 hand swing is solid in a few months" and I couldn't tell whether he was implying someone would be moving
up one notch in weight using 2HS's or not.

So, while I would normally agree "hey, Benedictine, just DO the program" I have an injury I'm still trying to get over. For all I know, I jumped the gun on 1H swings which prompted the initial problem.

I hope that makes sense. BTW, your metrics make good sense and it helps to have a target. I was guessing that it was 10 swings every 15 seconds. The other thought that occurred
to me is that it would be quite a let down to hit the 32kg Simple target with 2 Hand Swings only to realize "oops, I have to do that with a 1 Hand Swing now".
 
Benedictine
If you are still suffering with the tendonitis maybe staying with the current weight you are on would be prudent instead of trying to add weight to an injury.

One thing I've learned when working with kettbells is patience. I have had my fair share injuries. I've had a couple of hernias, broken bones, and thrown my back out dozens of times and I've had to take steps backwards but on a long enough timeline there is progress. The weight isn't going anywhere. The bell isn't going to go bad like a piece of meat. Just slow down, take your time, and try and get out as much as you can before moving up in weight.

Also I would also recommend massage and compression on your afflicted elbow.
 
But with two-handed swings, your grip is taxed much less.

-S-

Yes and no. You will also be swinging harder with two hands which will require more braking at the top. The grip will be slightly different too - more in the fingers.

10 two-hand swings every 30 seconds is much harder on the grip with the same weight bell than alternating hands...IMO
 
The other thought that occurred
to me is that it would be quite a let down to hit the 32kg Simple target with 2 Hand Swings only to realize "oops, I have to do that with a 1 Hand Swing now".
You could do a lot worse, IMHO, than what you're just described. I don't see it as a problem, although I would recommend working in some small amount of one-arm swings along the way, just so that it's not a total shock at the end.

-S-
 
@aussieluke, I don't think most people would agree with you; I don't. The biggest issue most people face as they start one-arm swings with a new weight is grip.

-S-
 
@aussieluke, I don't think most people would agree with you; I don't. The biggest issue most people face as they start one-arm swings with a new weight is grip.

-S-

I'm not talking about starting one arm swings with a new weight, I'm talking about the difference between one and two-arm swings with the same weight using the same intervals.

Eg. When I worked up to completing the Strength Matters swing test earlier this year (10 one-arm swings every 30 seconds for 10 minutes with 32kg), several times along the way I tried to give myself an 'easy' day by doing two-hand swings and every time had to cut the workout short due to forearm pump/fatigue. You just don't get that same rest as you do with one arm swings.

And with two-hand swings, 20 swings on the minute for X minutes is easier than 10 reps every 30 seconds ...IMO
 
@aussieluke, that's cool, my only point here is that I think you'll find most people don't have the same reaction. Perhaps others will chime in if they're tried this to let us know.

-S-
 
I have been re-investigating my grip for swings and found that it effects the entire chain. Likely most here know that already but I was quite surprised to find that a "not-strong" grip (achieved by moving bell handle from palm out to finger tips) dramatically decreased the power I could generate in posterior chain. Just for fun I have tried to deliberately swing hard enough to lose my grip and drop the bell and I can't do it; there seems to be either a subconscious or neurological brake applied, at least in my body. With grip more up in palm I can swing 24 kg up to chest height, nearly shoulder height one handed while w/ "hook" grip out at very tips of fingers I can't get it much past my waist.
 
@Steve Freides , I actually agree with @aussieluke on this one, but I also think you are talking past each other about two different things. I posted this on another thread:

If all else is really equal, then the two arm swing should be easier, but often all else isn't the same.

Two arm swings should be less taxing to the grip and forearms per rep and unit of rest. But two arm swings are often done for more reps at a time (because you can), with a heavier bell (because you can), with a more powerful hike pass and hip drive (because you can), and/or with less rest than one arm swings, so the grip fatigue accumulates.

The rest equation can be sneaky. As an example, say you are doing sets of 10 on the minute, alternating arms. With one arm swings, each set might be more taxing on the grip, but you have two rest intervals and a work interval to recover (about 2 minutes, in this example). With two arm swings, you only have one rest interval to recover (not much more than 40 seconds, in this example).
 
you can do whatever you want, but the S&S standards are set with 1H swing. Period. That doesn't mean you can't do your own thing with 2H swings and if you want to make it 100 2H swings in 5 minutes and 10 TGUs within 10 minutes, then that's fine, that's your objective. i think we get caught up in measuring ourselves against others, instead of measuring ourselves against … well… ourselves. you are doing this to improve yourself, if the objective you set accomplishes that, then you are ahead of the game. it's just not the S&S standard, but, who cares. I can do 100 2H swings with a 48kg in 5 minutes, BUT I CANNOT even manage 1 solid 1H swing with the 48kg. Not 1. In fact, it still takes me about 10 minutes to perform 100 1H swings with a 40kg, and those are suspect as well, 1H swings are difficult for me, 2H are not. For me, there is a dramatic difference between the 1H swing and the 2H swing. Set your goals based upon what is challenging for you and once you achieve them, set new ones. Happy New Year.
 
Well, this has been a much more interesting thread than I thought it would be. It would have never
occurred to me to try and substitute a 2HS for a 1HS in the S&S except I was forced to by injury and
my physio suggested it.
 
I have not noticed one-handed swings aggravating my elbows and I suffered with tennis/golfer's elbow/tendonitis several times over the past 4 years. My episodes have been triggered by pull-ups, push-ups, or Spiderman crawling. Do you experience pain while doing one-handed swings?

I sought guidance and treatment from a variety of doctors and physical therapists without being satisfied that we were fixing my problem. I think I found what I needed 6 months ago when I began to do the first exercises from Convict Conditioning as correctives. I think the wall push-ups and horizontal pulls were especially important to getting my elbows to a better place. I have not had elbow problems since then and I jumped from doing one-handed swings with the 16 kg bell to the 32 kg bell 2 months ago for a special project. I am doing S&S now and using the 24 kg bell for one-handed swings. After swinging the 32, the 24 feels light, but I can concentrate on form much better with the 24, so I am going to stay with it awhile.
 
I think what we're seeing here is the difference between strength and power. When S&S is done correctly the student uses the talk test between sets and moves slowly through the bells, only time testing once per month or so. The student will then be to the point that to swing a bell single handed in the time limit will be simple before advancing.

What does this have to do with two handed swings? I don't believe there's that much difference between two handed and single swings in this area and I think you all bring up good points. But if you do the talk test or wear a HR monitor and do almost an "easy strength" type approach only testing occasionally, some of us will advance slowly through the bells. But we will truly own the bell before advancing.

The swing is a power move, strength and speed. The bell is brought up by the powerful forward hinge of the hips, the stronger the hinge the faster the hips move, thus moving the bell faster but under control. The same with the downward swing, you pull the bell down powerfully under control. Don't let the bell pull you down.

There is pure genius in this program. When you can truly meet the time goals you move forward. But with the swing, you may have the strength to swing the bell but you must have the power to generate the speed to meet the goal. Meet the goal when you meet the goal, don't worry about how fast you are advancing to heavier bells and enjoy the ride.
 
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