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Kettlebell Cardio with Kettlebells?

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NormanOsborn

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LISS Jogging is normally my go-to exercise for cardiovascular conditioning. Unfortunately, that will no longer be an option. For work and related reasons, I'll have to do my conditioning at home from now on. Space is limited, but I have a set of KB's ranging from 4 to 32 kilos. Can someone recommend a good Cardiovascular Conditioning program with Kettlebells?

The program doesn't have to include much strength stimulus; I have access to good gyms on my days off, and heavy barbells and dumbbells will always be the best option for developing max strength. The program should focus on cardio, work capacity etc.

My first thought was, of course, Simple and Sinister, but I'm interested in hearing other people's vews.

Thanks. :)
 
Hello,

@NormanOsborn
All kind of carries, weighted box step or stair climbing, even jumping rope.

Then, even if this is not LISS:

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
I don't think 10x10 swings will have much of a cardio training effect. There is this cardio training program from Al Ciampa from 2014: From "Simple" to Serious Endurance | StrongFirst

The Serious Endurance Plan​


  • 4 sessions per week you will do sets of 10 one-hand swings at the top of each minute
  • Alternate arms each minute
  • The set will take near 20 seconds, so you will have 40 seconds rest, on average
  • Do not try to “save” energy; each swing must be crisp, sharp, and explosive
  • Breathe and recover between sets
  • Warm-up however you like, but do no other work (aside from the optional get-ups)
  • Take good care of your hands
  • The routine will play out like so:

    simple-to-serious-endurance.jpg


  • Only perform two sessions on consecutive days per week. Example: Mon, Wed, Fri, Sat or, Mon, Tue, Thur, Sat. It does not have to be the same two sessions that are consecutive each week, just no more than two in each week.
  • If your power fades during your session (especially the initial sessions), then quit for the day and rethink your choice of bell size. You likely chose too heavy.
 
I don't think 10x10 swings will have much of a cardio training effect. There is this cardio training program from Al Ciampa from 2014: From "Simple" to Serious Endurance | StrongFirst

I have to agree. Back last year when I was doing S&S up to six days per week during Lockdown, I didn't really notice any cardio effect from Swings until I started doing 10 x 10 with the 32.

Curiously, I actually got slightly more of a cardio effect from TGU's, possible because it involved being under tension for longer.
 
good Cardiovascular Conditioning program with Kettlebells
High Intensity Interval Resistance Training, HIIRT

This method is High Intensity Interval Training, HIIT with weights.

High Intensity Interval Training, HIIT, as you probably are aware of is short, highly intense work sets with rest periods between each work set.

This method falls into the area of Circuit Training, Cluster Set Training, Metabolic Training, etc.

High Intensity Interval Training

Research on High Intensity Interval Training years ago, (Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise (1996) 28, 1327-1330), determined that HIIT "improved V02max by about 14%; anaerobic capacity increased by a whopping 28%." Forget the Fat-Burn Zone.

Paradox

The paradox of HIIT (as with HIIRT) is that it increased both aerobic and anaerobic capacity at the same time.

Usually, increasing aerobic capacity require one method and increasing anaerobic capacity require another.

Work Times of Sets

With HIIT and HIIRT, work set times needs to be kept fairly short, around 30 second are less.

Rest Periods Between Work Sets

Rest Periods between sets vary.

1) Tabata Protocol

This method allow 10 second rest periods between Work Sets. I am not a fan of this method.

This method appears promotes greater aerobic capacity, less power and strength.

The shorter the Rest Period between HIIRT Resistance Training Sets, means less recovery; thus, lower Resistance Load are used.

2) SupraMaximal Intensity Interval Training, SMIT

This method incorporates long Rest Periods between Work Sets; around 3 minutes.

SMIT's longer Rest Periods between Work Set allows for heavier loads to be used; thus, a greater increase in power and strength.

There is a multitude of HIIT/HIIRT variation between Tababa and SMIT.

Length of HIIT and HIIRT Program

1) Sprint 8

This is one of the longer HIIT/HIIRT Programs

a) 30 second High Intensity Work Set

b) 90 second Rest Period between Work Sets

c) Total of 8 Work Sets

2) Three (3) Minute HIIT/HIIRT Training

This is one of the shortest.

a) 20 second Work Sets

b) Two (2) Minute Rest Periods between Work Sets

c) Three (3) Total Work Sets; 3 minute program

I recommend this method.

If you have performed all three Work Set as hard as you can, you'll be tapped out by the third Work Set.

If you still have something left after the third Work Set, you didn't give it your all.

Intensity and Time

There is an indirect relationship to Intensity and Time.

Think of Intensity being on one side of a See Saw and Time on the opposite end.

When one goes up, the other goes down.

Vince Gironda

Gironda was a great bodybuilder and even greater coach.

As per Gironda, "You can train hard or long but not both".

Let's get specific...

Kettlebell Swings

This is a great movement that can be used for HIIRT/ High Intensity Interval Resistance Training. I have used it myself and in working with others.

Let's apply it to the Three (3) HIIRT Protocol

1) Three 20 seconds Highly Intensive Swings Work Sets

2) 2 Minute Rest Period between each Work Set.

In working one individual, they told me it would not be enough.

After three all out Work Sets, I ask if they wanted more.

They replied, "No mas".
 
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How many times per week would you go as hard ?
2-3 Time Per Week

All out, High Intense Training, as you know, is physically demanding and require recovery time.

Secondly, to pushing yourself in an all out effort burns you out mentally.

Albert Beckles, a great bodybuilder once said, "Training too hard, too long, freaks your mind out."
 
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2-3 Time Per Week

All out, High Intense Training, as you know, is physically demanding and require recovery time.

Secondly, to pushing yourself in an all out effort burns you out mentally.

Albert Beckles, a great bodybuilder once said, "Training too hard, too long, freaks your mind out."

I know this will sound a stupid question even as I ask it, so apologies. But how do I know I'm working hard enough for it to be HIIT? Should I try to swing my heaviest Bell, or go lighter but faster?

Thanks.
 
I know this will sound a stupid question even as I ask it, so apologies. But how do I know I'm working hard enough for it to be HIIT? Should I try to swing my heaviest Bell, or go lighter but faster?

Thanks.
Use a HRM

I don’t mean to pry, but running (has always been for me anyway) a ’do anywhere’ activity. I understand of course that there may be physical (medical) reasons that preclude running.

And this is a horse that we have ridden or beat a lot around here… but… HIT will give you some ‘cardio’ benefits, just not the ones that extended periods training at your AeT will. i.e. LED / LSD training.
 
Doing S&S 2.0 has increased my conditioning the most honestly while staying healthy. At the beginning of the pandemic I began running A LOT. I was in good cardiovascular condition but BEAT UP.

S&S 2.0 has improved my aerobic capacity, but also the ‘Die but Do’ sessions have increased my overall conditioning 10x in my opinion
 
Maybe some people respond better to training than me. But S&S and things like walking have never done much for my endurance and never felt like they did much while doing them either. I was a fatty who walked a lot when I started S&S (while still going for my 45+ minute walk) and now a year and a half later I would say my biggest improvements endurance wise came from losing a bunch of weight and the lunge part of the Get Up.

I am not saying that there won't be any benefits or that you "need" more than what S&S has to offer. I have done 2 12 minute cooper running tests since I started S&S (one at the end of 2020, the other one this summer) and there was about a 50m difference between the 2. Granted, my lower legs felt like s**t and held me back. But to me a 2k cooper test on a rubber track that feels like my lungs are about to burst is still a pretty low benchmark for endurance.

I am fine with that and still have to nail the Simple test and want to see what results that will get me. But at least to me 10x10 one handed swingsdone in 10 minutes or so have never gotten me huffing and puffing. To me it feels like I would have to go for much longer to see serious improvements to my endurance or do much harder intervals than S&S prescribes.
 
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LISS Jogging is normally my go-to exercise for cardiovascular conditioning. Unfortunately, that will no longer be an option. For work and related reasons, I'll have to do my conditioning at home from now on. Space is limited, but I have a set of KB's ranging from 4 to 32 kilos. Can someone recommend a good Cardiovascular Conditioning program with Kettlebells?

The program doesn't have to include much strength stimulus; I have access to good gyms on my days off, and heavy barbells and dumbbells will always be the best option for developing max strength. The program should focus on cardio, work capacity etc.

My first thought was, of course, Simple and Sinister, but I'm interested in hearing other people's vews.

Thanks. :)
I'm using strong endurance template #4 with snatches and running interchangeably. Anti-glycolytic. Sustainable and proven effective.
 
I'm using strong endurance template #4 with snatches and running interchangeably. Anti-glycolytic. Sustainable and proven effective.
I'll be attending the next strong endurance seminar i can. I'm very jealous for this knowledge.

In the mean time @Brett Jones has been continuing his strength aerobics training on his Instagram, and I'm wondering if this will be a sufficient analog for aerobic capacity improvements.

Here's a favorite of mine ..




I'm also thinking about heart rate training ... And rest period manipulation as a method of mimicking aerobic training.
 
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I will keep on praising basement tempos. I got this one from the Jaggernaut Training System.
You set your timer for 45s work and 15 sec rest. You want your trainong to be 20-60 mins.
Option 1: during the first 45s you do your cardiac output activity (in my case skipping rope and Muay Thai drills). The goal is to raise your HR to 70-75%, not more. You rest for 15 sec, then for the next 45s you do some low effort exercise (resillient drills, flexible steel, neck work, abs). Repeat.
Option 2: I've been experimenting with this one recently. In this one you just do typical the cardio exercises (i.e. skipping rope, jumping jacks, anything that will raise your HR to 75%).
I can swear by this method. I've been doing it for a year, 2-3 times a week, usually 30mins. Cardio is no longer a limitation during sparrings (reaction time and fight IQ still is :D). Also, when I do my a+a snatches the HR plummets rapodly after I finish the set.

Try it, you want regret it!
 
As above, I'd recommend any of the EMOM (or 30" or whatever) training to get your heart going.
I'm doing SF-KB (BJJ Fanatics) course with LCCJ and rate it.
 
how do I know I'm working hard enough for it to be HIIT?

Heart Rate

Using a Heart Rate Monitor is one way of determining intensity.

Your heart rate in High Intensity Interval Training at some point will be 90% or higher of your Heart Rate Max.

Standard Target Heart Rate Calculator

This method provide you with a general idea of what your heart rate intensity is

Karvonen Heart Rate Percentage

The Karvonen formula specifically identifies what your personal heart rate training is.

The formula take into account your Resting Heart Rate.

Heart Rate Monitors

Heart Rate Monitors are fairly inexpensive.

I understand you can now pick up your heart rate on some phones.

Your Car Speedometer

Think of a Heart Rate Monitor like a Car Speedometer.

The Car Speedometer provides you sensory feedback on how fast it feels like and looks like when you are going 30 miles and hour vs 50 mile per hour.

Wearing a Heart Rate Monitor provides you similar feedback. You eventually learn to know what it feel like to when your training is 70% of Heart Rate Max Zone vs 90% of your Heart Rate Max Zone.

High Intensity Training Interval Set

These Work Sets are very short, traditionally 30 seconds or less because they use the Phosphagen Energy System (ATP).

ATP is depleted in around 15 second or less, more like 10 seconds, in Maximal Effort Strength, Power or Speed Training.

Once ATP is depleted, your Strength, Power and Speed drop like a rock.

Autoregulate

This means regulating your training by how you feel.

If your warm ups feesl light one day, increase your training load or intensity.

If your warm ups feel heavy one day, decrease your training load or intensity.

Should I try to swing my heaviest Bell, or go lighter but faster?

HIIT and HIIRT Intensity

The intent of these methods is to go all out during your training set.

The primary focus is to produce as much force as possible in a training set.

Thus, Heavy or Moderately Heavy Kettlebell Swing will work, providing your producing as much force as you can with each repetition.

Additional Information

1) Heart Rate Bounce


After a short High Intensity Interval Work Set, your heart rate is going to blow through the roof in 15 to 30 seconds of being in the Rest Period.

In working with one individual (with Dr Jamie Timmons' Three (3) Minute High Intensity Training Program) their heart rate bounce to over his 100% Heart Rate Max; based on the Standard Heart Rate Calculator, noted above.

2) Heart Rate Recovery

How quickly your Heart Rate decreases after an intensive exercise set is a major determinate of your cardiovascular fitness level and cardiovascular health.
 
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The average training Joe might not need the following level of accuracy but for sake of completeness of the discussion:

HR Calculators may be statistically correct for large populations, but be way off for an individual. So even better as opposed to using some calculator is to measure what your AeT is, and your AnT and base your training on that. This way you are using actual data as opposed to guessing.
 
KB are great for high intensity and medium intensity work. I think A&A or strength aerobic type work can build many of the same general qualities as LISS if carefully programmed. But the volume on hands and joints can add up pretty quick. Even just 4hrs a week steady state is a lot of reps. If outdoor options like rucking and running are out, step ups on stairs or a box are an option. Boring as any stationary steady activity, but very little room requirements. Also, very easy to monitor/progress.
 
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