Kettlebell Carpal Tunnel Golf and Tennis Elbow Mega Thread

[Benedictine Monk]

Good afternoon,

This 51 year old using S&S since roughly June has uncovered a right arm issue that seems to fall under either Carpal Tunnel or Tennis Elbow. I thought it would be useful to not only post what lead me to conclude I was suffering from this, but also the various therapies and devices I'm using.

For reference, I'm seeing an excellent massage therapist, ART-Chiro and (next week) an FMS -SFMA certified PT who practices in the same practice as these fine folks. I thought for the past 4 weeks it was just tight scalenes, but I had a Homer Simpson BFO - Blinding Flash of the Obvious 3 days ago, so I guess I join the club.

I'm also curious how much of S&S I can continue trying to do (I'm thinking daily TGU's with a light weight may be very helpful) and whether Hardstyle Abs combined with either Grippers or TGUs (I realize there's an ab overtraining issue to watch out for if I combine Hardstyle Abs with TGUs of any volume).

Disclaimer: I think the S&S is a wonderful program. I wasn't expecting it to help me uncover a movement dysfunction I didn't realize I had, but here we are, and as the Chief said once "its always *your* fault."

 

[Steve Freides]

2h swings.

 

[Benedictine Monk]

Steve,

Thank you. I was hoping you'd jump in. Would it be 10x10 then with no attempt to try and hit the 5:00? (The reason I ask is that I always assumed the 5:00 mark
was easier to hit with 1h swings because you could do L,R with no rest in between and bang out 20 reps.).

 

[Steve Freides]

I was hoping you'd jump in. Would it be 10x10 then with no attempt to try and hit the 5:00?

You're hurt - no trying to meet any specific time, weight, rest, or other requirements, rather find what you _can_ do and do that while you figure out what's wrong and while you heal.

I wrote a blog about mixing 2h and 1h swings within your individual sets of 10 - you could look that up, although it's pretty easily summarized - mix 2h and 1h swings within a set, e.g., 2 x 2h, 2 x left, 2 x 2h, 2 x right, 2 x 2h. That might let you get some one-handed swings in, but make sure you elbow and your medical crew are both OK with it.

-S-

 

[Benedictine Monk]

Excellent advice. Thank you. I'll look it up. Was also curious if anyone experiments with bumping up the weight on their warm up Goblet Squats,
but I would imagine that's a whole thread topic in and of itself, as I believe heavier weight not only taxes your recovery but indicates you still
have some mobility work to do.

Again, thanks.

 

[Steve Freides]

Was also curious if anyone experiments with bumping up the weight on their warm up Goblet Squats,

It's a warmup - if raising the weight doesn't tax you too much, go ahead and raise it. In the world of weights we squat, 24 kg is light and so is 48 kg.

-S-

 

[aussieluke]

Golfers elbow here. (Medial epicondylitis)

Had it about four months now. I have been lifting kettlebells for about 6 years now problem free. This was caused by holding my baby daughter with my arm and wrist in a bad position for hours on end for a couple of weeks when she was sick - 30+ minutes at a time with only 30-60 minutes rest most times and repeat all night. Noticed the problem when I was pressing 24kg overhead - I would get terrible pain at the lockout overhead. Thought somehow it was the way I was lifting or something - even though I'd been lifting trouble free for years and can press a 32 no problem too. By the time I realised what the problem was it was too late and I'd gone beyond the initial stages of tendinitis where rest and ice would have fixed it.

I have tried eccentric wrist curls with a 3kg dumbbell but had no benefit. Trigger point work on forearm, tricep, shoulder and pecs seemed to help some times but the pain would soon return.

Tried to train through it and that failed. Tried to train AROUND it with things that didn't bother it like two arm swings and goblet squats and that didn't help either.

Then as lifting or not lifting didn't seem to make any difference I carried on lifting anyway and it never got any worse, but never got any better either.

Two or three weeks ago I decided to stop all lifting completely and began a running program instead and thought it would be a good opportunity to build an aerobic base, rest my arm, get outdoors and hopefully lose some fat. Running is going well and so far injury free but the arm still is no better really.

Last week I gave in and saw a physio who said my whole arm and shoulder were extremely tight and full of trigger points.

First session he worked on my shoulder and forearm which felt a LOT looser after - my other arm now feels so tight in comparison.

Second session he said my forearm felt better but was still full of trigger points so he did some further massage and also some dry needling and said that helped to release everything further.

He gave me some basic isometric exercises to do and said to stretch the arm often.

I asked if a tennis elbow brace might help and he said to try one. I bought one that day and it does help to a degree. Particularly with picking my kids up which is the most painful thing for me at the moment.

He said to try and do any exercise that doesn't cause pain too. So I am continuing my running three days a week and will try to do some work with a 16kg bell three times a week while wearing the brace.

I tried some one arm swings today and they felt OK but made it ache, not hurt.

I had tried some unweighted getups last night and when my bad arm was down it felt odd and achy but again not the same sharp pain I get when lifting or pulling with my arm bent.

Tonight I just did 5/5 unweighted getups again and it actually felt a lot better and there was no pain and almost no aching.

I am wondering if loading the arm with the joint locked out may be a way to get some blood and tension on the tendon without painful lifting. I can't think of any other lift that would do this and I also can't imagine many physios suggesting TGUs so I till try it for myself and see.

If I can do naked getups pain free for a few sessions I will try with a 16kg bell which for me is very light. Or was.

I will try swings again and see how they feel. I have been swinging up to 40kg two handed lately and it wasn't causing my any direct pain. But I wonder if it is just too much grip tension to allow things to heal. I may try two hand swings up to 24kg if the one arm 16kg swings are no go.

I also tried goblet squats with 16kg but held the bell by the bell with the handle pointing down, as I don't know if holding the bell by the handle would put the elbow/wrist in an ideal position at the moment.


Just FYI when I was trying to train through/around it, I found the worst things were double KB front squats and overhead presses, and the lowering part of a getup. Snatches and swings weren't too bad generally.

Hoping to hear how some of you beat this and are back training normally again!

 

[Benedictine Monk]

Very interesting.

My therapy devices I'm using are:

(1) Tyler Twist with Theraband - working my way up from Yellow

(2) You may want to look at the Reverse Tyler Twist with Theraband for Golfer's Elbow

(3) About to order the handcare package from Iron Mind consisting of Hand Bands, Zenith Grippers and a hand care booklet

My devices I will likely order to combat postural issues:

Evoluent Vertical Mouse and a minimizing my excessive surfing using Tablets and phones (the hand position I was using wasn't the greatest)

Thinking about picking up a stylus

Am going to start using a fountain pen again.

For therapeutic intervention:

(1) ART Chiropractor

(2) FMS Physio

(3) Massage therapist

-- all located in same building and practicing together. The massage therapist in particular focuses on the scalenes, which are an unusual
trigger point that can either trigger golf/tennis elbow or make it worse.

Supplemental Exercises:

(1) Lesson learned I am now doing Pavel's SuperJoints every morning, beginning at 10 reps per exercise first week and adding 10 per week
until I get to 50 reps per day per exercise.

(2) I think of my hands now like surgeons do and I treat them accordingly, which means specific hand exercises throughout the day.

(3) Kelly Starrett's Mobility WOD and Donnie Thompson's sites have some interesting videos in particular using big straps on the elbow
and a Lacrosse ball/stick. Give it a look or, better yet, mention it to your therapist.

 

[Benedictine Monk]

"But I wonder if it is just too much grip tension to allow things to heal."

I would be very curious if switching to Hardstyle Abs and gripper work for awhile gives you any relief, but I defer
to the more experienced board members on that one. There is a supraspinatus trigger point and an elbow trigger
point that might be worth looking at as well. I may resort to dry needling to break the cycle of what has been likely building
for over a year.

Also curious if you do any computer work that may be a contributing factor. It was the last thing I ever thought of. Now I feel kind of
foolish for overlooking it.

 

[Steve Freides]

My goodness, what a long list! Why don't you just stop swinging a kettlebell until your elbow heals?

@Bill Been this is a place for one of your snarky comments - I now want to see if you'll make one when asked for it or if they only happen spontaneously.

-S-

 

[Lew]

Steve,

You're rough!

Some of us have a hard time stopping once we've started.

My left elbow bothers me a tiny bit most of the time, but performs well during two-handed swings.

My right arm is in great shape, but feels a strong "pull" during one-handed swings.

At 53yo I accept some aches and pains, but need to stop short of a self-inflicted injury.

It's a tough line to see.

Might need new glasses...

 

[aussieluke]

Steve - my plan was to stop all lifting and stick to running, and that's what I had been doing, but my physio actually told me it is important to do whatever lifting I can as long as there is no pain, and to keep the shoulder strong as possible.

 

[Benedictine Monk]

My goodness, what a long list! Why don't you just stop swinging a kettlebell until your elbow heals?

@Bill Been this is a place for one of your snarky comments - I now want to see if you'll make one when asked for it or if they only happen spontaneously.

-S-

I would like to be the first member to earn Pavel's coveted "Beating a Dead Horse" badge in which I not only comprise most of the comments but even start replying to myself.

 

[Benedictine Monk]

Steve - my plan was to stop all lifting and stick to running, and that's what I had been doing, but my physio actually told me it is important to do whatever lifting I can as long as there is no pain, and to keep the shoulder strong as possible.

I found something that might be of interest on Ulnar Nerve Compression. He has affiliate links but they're pretty innocuous and the advice
seems prudent and mainstream. I should also mention I was enjoying starting up again with Indian Clubs but stopped for awhile when my
elbow flared up as I couldn't figure out whether I was making my arm issues better or worse.

Ulnar Nerve Entrapment Treatment

(And, just as a note, I have no links with the fellow so if I've violated a forum rule, I apologize but he has created a nice little summary
including 4 exercises with video. He also has a free report to give away, so be forewarned. The videos look like they've only been active
for about a month or so, but, hey, I was a young Benedictine monk once too.)

 

[Benedictine Monk]

Steve,

You're rough!

Some of us have a hard time stopping once we've started.

My left elbow bothers me a tiny bit most of the time, but performs well during two-handed swings.

My right arm is in great shape, but feels a strong "pull" during one-handed swings.

At 53yo I accept some aches and pains, but need to stop short of a self-inflicted injury.

It's a tough line to see.

Might need new glasses...

I suspect the "pull" is because you're right handed and, like me, you're doing a lot of right hand dominant repetitive motions
you're not even conscious of. I also think once we pass a certain age we begin to pay for what we ignored in our youth. Oh well,
better late than never I guess.

 

[Benedictine Monk]

I also forgot to mention I ordered the 3 DVD's that Gray Cook and Brett Jones did - 2 on the Get Up and one on Kettlebells from
the center. I expect them to arrive shortly and hoping to help my son, who is a competitive swimmer, to be better able to stick
with a training program in between his visits to an SFG Instructor (the instructor is very good but I think my son doesn't yet have
the mental habits to stick with a program independent of a daily coach).

 

[Lew]

I suspect the "pull" is because you're right handed and, like me, you're doing a lot of right hand dominant repetitive motions
you're not even conscious of. I also think once we pass a certain age we begin to pay for what we ignored in our youth. Oh well,
better late than never I guess.

Yes.

Right hand dominant in a moderate active job. You called that!

Better late than never...

And I'm drilling into all 3 of my 18yo boys, 'Better Never Late!'

 

[Lew]

I also forgot to mention I ordered the 3 DVD's that Gray Cook and Brett Jones did - 2 on the Get Up and one on Kettlebells from
the center. I expect them to arrive shortly and hoping to help my son, who is a competitive swimmer, to be better able to stick
with a training program in between his visits to an SFG Instructor (the instructor is very good but I think my son doesn't yet have
the mental habits to stick with a program independent of a daily coach).

How old is your son?

And I would appreciate a review of the DVDs once you have an opinion.

 

[Benedictine Monk]

How old is your son?

And I would appreciate a review of the DVDs once you have an opinion.

He's 17, almost 18. Good kid and very coachable but its hard to get a typical teenager competitive athlete in a solo sport to become
a solo trainer when he's not in a pool with a coach monitoring him. Understandable, I suppose. He's good results with my ART chiropractor
and the SFG trainer did work the "Brett Jones magic" by getting him the ability to unlock his "tight hammies" and get his palms almost
touching the floor after just one hour.

Glad to give a review as I've never seen them before and very interested in finally beating the swing and TGU to death like I should have done when
I first touched a kettlebell in 2008. (I can't believe its been 7 years).

 

[Benedictine Monk]

Yes.

Right hand dominant in a moderate active job. You called that!

Better late than never...

And I'm drilling into all 3 of my 18yo boys, 'Better Never Late!'

What really creeped me out about my discovery was how I'd bought a cheap mouse and increased my tablet use over the past
12 months. When I analyzed my hand motions I was appalled at what I was doing to my poor hand and forearm. I now turn my
tablet on airplane mode during the day and am going to deactivate my social media accounts on mobile devices and force myself to go on the computer
and do a defined series of tasks, then get off.

Our always on convenient tech world has sucked us into abusing our extremities.

I'm also wearing eyeglasses with a special coating to filter out harmful blue light from computer screens ( burning and itching often starts in our
40's for no particular reason, of course) and will be buying a full spectrum lamp from Full Spectrum Lighting Solutions in Michigan soon because I
live in a northern clime and I'm starting to get photo sensitivity (my mother has macular degeneration and the light worked wonders for her).