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Cast Iron Or Competition Style?

Finding comfort or enjoyment or easy on your hands, some of the things that were mentioned by those preferring competition style bells, aren't our concern at StrongFirst. We design and sell StrongFirst kettlebells because we think they're the best tools for the strength and conditioning training we recommend.

-S-
What makes them so?
 
What makes them so?
That answer is above my pay grade. :) All kidding aside, I know a lot of thought, including rounds of prototyping, went into all aspects of them. I'll you'll forgive me, asking what makes them the best tool for the job is, to me, like asking what's so great about S&S or Q&D. I trust the sources.

-S-
 
That answer is above my pay grade. :) All kidding aside, I know a lot of thought, including rounds of prototyping, went into all aspects of them. I'll you'll forgive me, asking what makes them the best tool for the job is, to me, like asking what's so great about S&S or Q&D. I trust the sources.

-S-
So your post is faith based? I don’t know if I can get behind that thought process myself. The sources for S&S and Q&D are cited repeatedly in both programs manuals by the creator.

Even if cast iron e coated kettlebells are the superior training tool to other kettlebells, you can buy made in USA ones for cheaper than foreign made Strongfirst bells.
 
@Hrungnir, faith in a brand. I couldn't tell you why, in terms of construction, I lift an Eleiko barbell, either - I have watched their ads but the technical details are way over my head. I wasn't involved in the development of either StrongFirst kettlebells or Eleiko barbell - the only difference is that I know and speak with the people who did the StrongFirst kettlebells.

-S-
 
What makes them so?
Just from my own viewpoint, I like my StrongFirst kettlebells better than my Rogue bells because of the texture of the coating. I guess it's e-coat and I think Rogue has that now, but all of my Rogue bells are powder coat. It has some advantages too, but I like the StrongFirst e-coating. I do have some older Perform Better kettlebells that StrongFirst used to sell, and those are e-coated. The quality of the StrongFirst kettlebells is definitely better than those. More regular surfaces, really nice emblems on both sides that shows the weight/size, and a more more precise flat bottom.
 
Well it’s good the context for your post is out there for others to draw their own conclusions from as well.
There are only two ways to know something: by directly perceiving it or by learning it from a trusted authority. Steve Freides, whether because of the efficiency of SF programs, or due to his personal relationships with SF inner circle considers SF a trusted authority. If that trusted authority has made a choice to sell cast iron kettlebells only, his conclusion is that they must be superior in context of SF programming. It's quite straightforward and logical reasoning, even if you (like me) do not agree with it.
So your post is faith based? I don’t know if I can get behind that thought process myself.
Most of what we "know" is faith based.
The sources for S&S and Q&D are cited repeatedly in both programs manuals by the creator.
But what does it change? You still have to trust those sources based on faith.
 
In general, the craftsmanship of kettlebells (both competition and cast iron) has come a long way over the past 20 years - most of the kettlebells these days are pretty good, but I'd go w. a reputable brand that comes well recommended. Competition bells - same.

What kind of training are you planning on doing? If you are planning on using single bells w. both hands (two-handed swings, goblet squats, etc) often in training, then I'd lean towards cast iron bells rather than comp bells. If you plan to do GS, I'd get comp bells. Yeah, you can do both of these things with either one, but that's what I'd do.
 
Finding comfort or enjoyment or easy on your hands, some of the things that were mentioned by those preferring competition style bells, aren't our concern at StrongFirst.

@Steve Freides. Forgive me, but I'm struggling to understand what you mean here.
Are you saying that SF KBs are not designed to be comfortable, to be enjoyed, and to have effective grip? That they are simply the tool to compliment a program?
Or are you saying that you have no concern as to why individuals have a preference to a different KB style and that if you wish to practice SF programs then SF bells are the best tools for the job. You have no concern thereafter why an individual may have a preference for another bell.

I'm asking as I had an interest in purchasing SF bells, but now I'm concerned that the bells have been an afterthought to support the programs. In another thread about SF bells you said,

"StrongFirst sells an exclusive product, never intended for the mass market."

"When you are buying a StrongFirst kettlebell, you are paying a premium for the shield and what it stands for."


I would have thought SF bells would be the best researched/ manufactured available to support arguably the leader in HS KB brand.
 
For background I have 24,2x32, 2x40, 1x48...cast iron... the old RKC bells.

If I were to buy them all today I would buy quality competition bells (do not try to save money by buying lesser quality bells either way).

Competition bells are easier to handle, they have the same size but they are probably a little easier to break (but that is a non issue since we use "proper" technique when cleaning and quality bells). But I have seen people with broken handles on RKC bells as well

The grip diameter is smaller on competition bells. Which is better for high reps... So I can do more reps... But I get stronger grip by using the cast iron bells.
I find competition bells more uncomfortable when doing get ups or presses.
 
Finding comfort or enjoyment or easy on your hands, some of the things that were mentioned by those preferring competition style bells, aren't our concern at StrongFirst. We design and sell StrongFirst kettlebells because we think they're the best tools for the strength and conditioning training we recommend.

-S-
@Steve Freides. Forgive me, but I'm struggling to understand what you mean here.
Are you saying that SF KBs are not designed to be comfortable, to be enjoyed, and to have effective grip? That they are simply the tool to compliment a program?
Or are you saying that you have no concern as to why individuals have a preference to a different KB style and that if you wish to practice SF programs then SF bells are the best tools for the job. You have no concern thereafter why an individual may have a preference for another bell.

I'm asking as I had an interest in purchasing SF bells, but now I'm concerned that the bells have been an afterthought to support the programs. In another thread about SF bells you said,

"StrongFirst sells an exclusive product, never intended for the mass market."

"When you are buying a StrongFirst kettlebell, you are paying a premium for the shield and what it stands for."


I would have thought SF bells would be the best researched/ manufactured available to support arguably the leader in HS KB brand.
I instead interpret it as:
Some things are not meant to be easy. Some things are just meant to be done. It is not about a lesser product , the Pavel-approved bells are guaranteed to be great (I am in no means affiliated with strongfirst by the way).

I think about it like this:
Oh no this toothbrush is uncomfortable, I need to buy another... No. Brush your teeth and you are done.

The barbell hurts my back when I squat, couldnt i wrap a towel on it so it hurts less?... No. Place the barbell properly and your body will learn and eventually stop hurting.

Doing a TGU with 48kg on your forarm will hurt no matter the design. It is ok. Not all things in life or as a grown up is pleasant.
 
@Steve Freides. Forgive me, but I'm struggling to understand what you mean here.
I apologize for being too brusk in my reply.

StrongFirst kettlebells are a premium product that a lot of thought went into - about as far from being an "afterthought" as I can imagine. I use them and don't think much about them beyond that. I take the same attitude to the rest of my gear. For example ...

I train my deadlift on an Eleiko competition bar I bought from powerlifting meet organizers. It's 29 mm in diameter, standard length and stiff. There are lots of more "enjoyable" bars to train on, e.g., a deadlift-specific bar that's 27 mm in diameter (thinner is easier to grip), longer (is easier to get a heavy weight moving), and bends more (also makes it easier to get a heavy weight moving). I am not about enjoying my training, I'm about enjoying the results of my training. Same thing for me about StrongFirst kettlebells - I trust that they're the right training tool for me. If I can't swing a StrongFirst 48 kg bell with one hand because the handle is thicker than some other kinds of kettlebells - this is true at this moment and always has been - then my perspective is simple: my grip needs to be stronger. I own a deadlift-specific bar like I described above, and I use it for the final weeks of my training before a competition so as to be best prepared for the competition, but that's all. My wife trains on a deadlift-specific bar, but in her case it's because she's small in stature (5' 2" and 120 pounds) and has small hands, and in her case, the benefits of using a 29 mm bar are outweighed by the deficits.

Again, I don't mean to come across as telling you or anyone else what to do. For someone like me who wholeheartedly embraces a StrongFirst approach to training, unless you have a specific reason to do otherwise (e.g., my wife's small hands mentioned above), you can trust that StrongFirst kettlebells are a tool that will let you focus on your training and not on your kettlebells' characteristics.

-S-
 
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I think both competition and hardstyle bells have their place.

If KBS is your jam, you are going to want competition bells -- which may, or may not be, obvious. I believe they are easier on the hands, primarily for the grip surface, diameter of the handle and its lack of curvature at the point of hand contact lends itself to more high volume endeavors. A 5 (or 10) minute snatch test with a hardstyle bell and competition bell of the same mass are not the same experience.

I personally prefer hardstyle bells, and use them more frequently, for most of my training. Hardstyle bells, IMO, are better suited for "two hands on one bell" exercises and TGUs (because of the NOT straight handle shape). Speed switches when snatching are easier for me to navigate with the increased clearance from the bell to the handle.

Conjecture, I don't have raw data, but I am under the impression, brand to brand, there is more variability in the dimensions, and surface coating, of a hardstyle bell than a competition bell. I have seen hardstyle brands come and go; I have seen companies transition from my, 'go to' brand, to my, 'I would really rather not' brand. My current favorite is Kettlebell Kings, but I admit, I have never had a SF bell in my hands. I like the coating, dimensions and the QC that KK brings to the table (consistency from bell to bell etc.).

I am sure SF makes a great bell. For a 32kg bell, out their door and delivered to mine, SF is almost 73% more expensive than KK. That is LITERALLY my only reluctance at this time. I like KK, and they are not broken enough for me to veer off the path.
 
It depends on how you're training.
I train mostly doubles, so I prefer comp bells. I'm not a fan of cast iron for doubles because:

Cast irons are variable diameters, so you technique changes with the weight: meaning your stance at a 2x16kg might be narrower than at 2x24, and that might be narrower 2x32kg, and that much narrower than at 2x48kg (for cleans/swings/snatches etc.).
This means that each time you increase bell size you ALSO must enter adapt to a new - likely weaker - pattern (wider stance). You spent months strengthening a certain pattern and now you have to change it - great.
Would you widen your deadlift stance every time you added a plate? Is that optimal?
So there's a problem with increases in weight.

It also makes back-off/technique work sub-optimal: the groove is very different with a lighter weight than a heavy one. If your training weight is 2x32kg and you want to do some light technique work with 2x16kg, its impossible (this goes for all lifts - not just pulls). This is why Olympics plates are all the same diameter - so technique is the same at light weights. Smaller diameter KB's are different not just for pulls but presses, squats, get ups, everything.
So there's a problem with decrease in weight.

There's an argument to be made that "changes in bell sizes facilitates learning by requiring you to master more varied movement patterns", and I agree with this, but you should be mastering all these patterns at a given weight, not changing the weight and pattern simultaneously.

Cast irons are made that way because it was the obvious way to make them, not because its the best way to get stronger.

I own:
Cast iron: 4, 6, 8, 12, 2x16, 2x20, 2x24, 2x28, 2x32, 40, 48
Comp: 6, 8, 10, 2x16, 2x24, 2x28, 3x32, 36

I didn't start really progressing with doubles until I switched to comp bells.
Just my opinion.
 
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