krg
Level 7 Valued Member
Early on in the cycle RoP does not take long - even a heavy day. Later in the cycles (5x5 ladders) I found it time consuming - certainly more so than S+S.
Kettlebell Clean and Press versus Turkish Get Up
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krg
Level 7 Valued Member
@Steve Freides - my experience too. Heavy day, late cycle was a weekend afternoon's endeavour
Kozushi
Level 7 Valued Member
I've been going "purist" the last several days only doing the C&Ps but a few months back I also did the pullup ladders. Doing the pullups helped me progress faster at S&S. Actually, I should start doing them again too - thank you for the suggestion! And yes, the ladders are 1,2,3. That's all I can handle with the 32kg bell at the moment.
Kozushi
Level 7 Valued Member
Well, I weigh 100kg and am about 185cm tall, so 32 is actually not a big accomplishment.Hello,
@Kozushi
You are welcome ahah
if you do:
- some press ladders
- chin / pull ups (assuming that you start doing them again)
- S&S
How many time does it take you ? (I do not count warm-up and cool down)
32 is...my goal so I am far from you !
Kind regards,
Pet'
Doing the press ladders before S&S slows down S&S a bit. The whole thing takes about 30 minutes.
Kozushi
Level 7 Valued Member
Hmmm... maybe just straight military press is better given that I'm doing swings anyhow... I've been experimenting with a few things...
Anyhow, I certainly couldn't press a 32 over my head 6 months ago. I developed the ability through S&S training. Now I can press it a bunch of times over my head. A bit of pressing is a nice add on to S&S I think.
Anyhow, I certainly couldn't press a 32 over my head 6 months ago. I developed the ability through S&S training. Now I can press it a bunch of times over my head. A bit of pressing is a nice add on to S&S I think.
Both exercises are outstanding but if you really want to improve at one or the other I'd suggest just flip a coin and spend serious time cycling through them both throughout the year. Sadly there's no way to stay at your best at every lift all the time. Something has to give ground while another thing improves. But since I constantly try to disprove that law, I GTG as many things as I can: press, TGU, bent press, dead lift, front squat...you get the idea. It's hard to go wrong with GTG.
pet'
Level 8 Valued Member
Hello,
@John Spezzano
Considering all the moves you maintain / want to maitain, do you "organize" your GTG ?
For e.g. 2 or 3 of each on the morning or whatever ?
Kind regards,
Pet'
@John Spezzano
Considering all the moves you maintain / want to maitain, do you "organize" your GTG ?
For e.g. 2 or 3 of each on the morning or whatever ?
Kind regards,
Pet'
@John Spezzano, I agree with you but would caution that one must have a certain level of skill with the movements one is practicing, and a willingness to practice mindfully in order to benefit from this approach. And we know you have both!
My favorite approach for keeping a lot of lifts going is Easy Strength - 5 lifts, ~10 reps each every day in low-rep sets.
-S-
My favorite approach for keeping a lot of lifts going is Easy Strength - 5 lifts, ~10 reps each every day in low-rep sets.
-S-
pet'
Level 8 Valued Member
Hello,
@Steve Freides
In this logic, do you vary weights to still progress, or do you keep them unchanged "just" to maintain both skill and strength ?
Kind regards,
Pet'
@Steve Freides
In this logic, do you vary weights to still progress, or do you keep them unchanged "just" to maintain both skill and strength ?
Kind regards,
Pet'
The method is to keep it heavy but easy, and go for a PR when you feel like it.
-S-
-S-
Kozushi
Level 7 Valued Member
I'll use this framework for military presses, thank you.
Dan John
Level 6 Valued Member
Thank for the ping, Steve...
The hard thing about this is like what Charlie Francis said about sprint training: people's highs are too low and lows are too high. It is hard to do these workouts because you don't chase fatigue, you don't chase failure. Make the lifts and walk out. Try to do them with no emotional impact. Don't judge the weights. If it is easy, go heavier next time if you feel like it.
Now, this is impossible for most people. Hell, most people never finish a program, so why do I even worry about it? People want the EXACT definition of easy, hard, or medium and it literally depends. If you are a slow twitch monster who can drive up near maxes daily, your "Easy" is different. I'm a blend actually. For example, in deep squats, if I could do a single...I go keep going and do a triple! Upper body, I was so much more "twitchy" and my maxes were so far above my rep numbers.
Stu McGill explains some of this with my Celtic hips, for example, but it is just the way we are wired too. So, you are going to have to be an experiment of one. If you want "exact" percents or poundage, don't do Easy Strength.
I'm not sure why I understood the concept so simply. Honestly, I don't, but every time I did this I made some kind of weird Personal Record "out of nowhere."
The hard thing about this is like what Charlie Francis said about sprint training: people's highs are too low and lows are too high. It is hard to do these workouts because you don't chase fatigue, you don't chase failure. Make the lifts and walk out. Try to do them with no emotional impact. Don't judge the weights. If it is easy, go heavier next time if you feel like it.
Now, this is impossible for most people. Hell, most people never finish a program, so why do I even worry about it? People want the EXACT definition of easy, hard, or medium and it literally depends. If you are a slow twitch monster who can drive up near maxes daily, your "Easy" is different. I'm a blend actually. For example, in deep squats, if I could do a single...I go keep going and do a triple! Upper body, I was so much more "twitchy" and my maxes were so far above my rep numbers.
Stu McGill explains some of this with my Celtic hips, for example, but it is just the way we are wired too. So, you are going to have to be an experiment of one. If you want "exact" percents or poundage, don't do Easy Strength.
I'm not sure why I understood the concept so simply. Honestly, I don't, but every time I did this I made some kind of weird Personal Record "out of nowhere."
banzaiengr
Level 6 Valued Member
If I had to choose I'd clean & press. I'd want to do a press, a pull, a squat, and a hinge in my program. So I would clean and press to cover the press and the hinge. Plus being more of a ballistic move I think it has the best carry over to athletics. Don't get me wrong, I love TGU's. They could be done as a warm up or on variety days, but when added to the volume of c&p's you do if using ROP, that's a lot on the shoulders.
If doing ROP "by the book" you'd be doing some swings and snatches. So if you wanted to make things really simple why not just do snatches? But if you are already doing a heavy amount of pulling exersices, snatches, pull ups, & deads, you mat want to get a press in there.
What was the question again?
If doing ROP "by the book" you'd be doing some swings and snatches. So if you wanted to make things really simple why not just do snatches? But if you are already doing a heavy amount of pulling exersices, snatches, pull ups, & deads, you mat want to get a press in there.
What was the question again?
pet'
Level 8 Valued Member
Hello,
This article The Ultimate Kettlebell Exercise for Martial Conditioning matches with @banzaiengr 's sentence
Kind regards,
Pet'
This article The Ultimate Kettlebell Exercise for Martial Conditioning matches with @banzaiengr 's sentence
Kind regards,
Pet'
banzaiengr
Level 6 Valued Member
Interesting because I tend to think about programming as it would pertain to wrestling. Thanks
Kozushi
Level 7 Valued Member
S&S is perfect for Judo in my opinion being a judo guy for 30 years.
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