Coffee, fasting and mitochondria

Discussion in 'Diet and Nutrition' started by iron&flint, Oct 11, 2019.

  1. iron&flint

    iron&flint Double-Digit Post Count

    I was pondering Q&D with its mitochondrial benefits today, and in training fasted in particular. Pavel suggests it in the book, and adds that consuming an energy drink beforehand would negate the benefits. This makes sense if it’s an energy drink containing sugar but then I started thinking about sugar-free energy drinks - of which black coffee is one.

    When fasting (which is most days), I always have black coffee, so of course fasted training is still with a decent dose of caffeine in my system.

    Out of interest, I googled the effects of coffee on mitochondria and found this:

    Caffeine from four cups of coffee protects the heart with the help of mitochondria

    Based on that, it makes me think that coffee (or any sugar-free, caffeine-containing energy drink) is actually complementary to fasted Q&D training.

    Any further thoughts on this?
  2. HUNTER1313

    HUNTER1313 More than 500 posts

    And apparently 3-4 cups of coffee is good for T levels too
    iron&flint likes this.
  3. Hasbro

    Hasbro Triple-Digit Post Count

    Any excuse to drink coffee is fine with me. I have a large cup first thing upon waking up and most of the time I don’t eat anything until late afternoon. I would advise coffee over those energy drinks though. Coffee is full of antioxidants and compounds that are healthy and one large study showed that drinking 4–5 cups of coffee per day was associated with a reduced risk of early death.
    Coffee and Longevity: Do Coffee Drinkers Live Longer?
    runninggirevik, Bauer and iron&flint like this.
  4. iron&flint

    iron&flint Double-Digit Post Count

    Oh absolutely, no doubt about coffee being just plain good for you, especially compared with energy drinks.

    I was really thinking of it in terms of Q&D and Pavel’s advice with regards to optimising mitochondrial development. It’s like coffee is another tool in the arsenal with Q&D and fasting in a way I hadn’t foreseen, much as I was already pro coffee.
    Hasbro likes this.
  5. HUNTER1313

    HUNTER1313 More than 500 posts

    Will anyone elaborate on the fasting Pavel talks about? Is it the 16/8ish, warrior dietish, or one meal a day?
  6. iron&flint

    iron&flint Double-Digit Post Count

    I don’t know beyond what the book says but I always do 16/8 or just dinner with Q&D at the start of the day before work.

    I’d also be interested in further insights though.
  7. Bauer

    Bauer More than 500 posts

    Pavel has mentioned occasionally that he uses the Warrior diet by Ori Hofmekler - and that he has black coffee for breakfast (in his interview on the Tim Ferriss podcast he talks a bit about his typical day).

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  8. Pavel Macek

    Pavel Macek More than 2500 posts Master Certified Instructor

  9. Steve Freides

    Steve Freides Forum Administrator Senior Certified Instructor

    Yes, that's a great start to that interview. Tim goes on to mention how he usually chats with people about what they had for breakfast for a bit, but has nothing to say to "Coffee."

    iron&flint likes this.
  10. Marc

    Marc Quadruple-Digit Post Count

    Part of what makes fasting/restricted eating healthy is that it induces and enhances autophagy, i.e. recycling faulty cell components. Coffee even seems to boost that process:

  11. Hasbro

    Hasbro Triple-Digit Post Count

    A big thank you for that! Before your comment I had never even heard of the term autophagy before. I’ve only begun to start researching but find it very interesting. Fascinating stuff!
  12. Dasho

    Dasho Triple-Digit Post Count

    Has anyone tried this with the AM Formula from Geoff Neupert's 24 Hour Diet? I know some people view fasting as literally zero calories and some view it as "zero carbs and low protein so as to not trigger an insulin response." I ask because, frankly, plain black coffee is a lot less of a hassle to prepare.
  13. HUNTER1313

    HUNTER1313 More than 500 posts

    I have. And it seems to work. I seemed to lose fat. What I found was I was ravenously hungry. And I got sick of coconut tasting coffee. I love and enjoy a cup of good black coffee. No coffee condiments for me.
    ShawnM, LukeV, offwidth and 4 others like this.
  14. Steve Freides

    Steve Freides Forum Administrator Senior Certified Instructor

    FWIW, I put Brain Octane Oil and powdered cinnamon in my first cup of coffee in the morning.

    Tarzan likes this.
  15. Tarzan

    Tarzan More than 500 posts

    I use glycine as a sweetener in my coffee. I looked into using sweetamine because of it's anti-inflammatory properties but it was a bit pricey, so now I just use glycine. A few days without it and I'm like the tin man from the wizard of oz before Dorothy oiled him.
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  16. Steve Freides

    Steve Freides Forum Administrator Senior Certified Instructor

    Glycine - Wikipedia

    This is a new one for me.

    After a summer of walking with a heavy bar on my back, I started taking

    which is your basic joint health compound of glucosamine and chondroitin (sp?) - no idea if it's helping, but not walking around with a heavy bar on my back is certainly helping. :)

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  17. Marc

    Marc Quadruple-Digit Post Count

    Just ranting: Mistreating coffee by putting in coconut oil, butter, MCT oil or any other lipid will do exactly zero other than adding kilocalories.
    RichJ, offwidth and ali like this.
  18. ali

    ali Quadruple-Digit Post Count

    Another thing rarely considered... Coffee is a psychoactive central nervous system stimulant. It stimulates a cortisol response which in turn releases glycogen from your liver to dump some glucose into your system, which in turn causes a release of insulin should that glucose not be required for immediate cellular energy use.
    No incoming dietary carb source but an internal environment as if there was!
    Calorie restriction, fasting and coffee does result in calorie restriction but not low blood sugar, if that's a concern or goal.
    Taking that further....a stress response generally does too. Taking that further, low blood sugar is not only about dietary carbohydrate.
    AgileAntiFragile and iron&flint like this.
  19. Marc

    Marc Quadruple-Digit Post Count

    I don't know if this is really a problem for healthy people. In diabetic people it can indeed mess with blood glucose and insulin levels, so these folks should be aware of that. I'd guess it isn't a problem for healthy people.
    Furthermore, heavy coffee drinking correlates with lower incidences of type 2 diabetes. Research from Guido Kroemer's lab (the guy from the video I posted earlier) seems to indicate that coffee consumption actually boosts autophagy. Taken together I am heavily inclined to claim that coffee consumption is highly beneficial but one should adjust the amount to their individual caffein tolerance.
  20. ali

    ali Quadruple-Digit Post Count

    Totally agree.
    But a 'bulletproof coffee' model and many who seek a low blood sugar for diabetic control/ longevity consider the avoidance of carbohydrate as being top priority - hence coffee and fat to keep the fat burning going.

    And they (the marketeers) do promote this, the low insulin model of obesity is chief. Then this model is distorted and misapplied to even a healthy athletic population where 'fat burning' becomes the be all and end all of performance/health/longevity/finance/success, take your pick.

    Of course, not everyone thinks or believes this, but there is a tie in here with keto/low carb/fat for fuel - coffee, fasting and mitochondria.

    The role of coffee in a glucose frenzy may muddy the picture somewhat but actually helps to lessen the burden on our poor old vital glucose molecule in the fat loss/health quagmire. It's incoming dietary energy, not a singular glucose/insulin interaction (in general for healthy peeps, for some it maybe more significant).

    Habitual coffee drinking, stress and lack of sleep is a problem for many. As is diabetes.
    So yes, different populations.
    iron&flint likes this.

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