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Kettlebell Complexes or keep it simple

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I'm ignorant in regards to what the strict definition of a complex is...
Does a complex require the combination of pulls and presses or just multiple movements?
If the latter is the case, wouldn't a TGU be a complex?

Good point, and it's somewhat semantics and the ways we're used to thinking of things. For example, is "clean + press" (2 movements combined) really that much different than "snatch" (one movement)? It's pretty much the same muscles, same result, and similar effort.

Since get-up is one defined movement/exercise, we wouldn't normally think of it as a complex. But of course, it is a bunch of different movements combined.

Another distinction I've heard (possibly from @Geoff Neupert ?) is "chain" vs. "complex". A kettlebell chain would be clean + press + squat + swing + clean + press. A kettlebell complex would be 3 cleans + 3 presses + 3 squats.

But yes, mainly I think a complex is just combining multiple movements. Doesn't have to require a combination of pulls and presses.
 
ABC, DFW, and SA with C-P-SQ-SN, all good.
Light complexes make for a good warm up.
A lot of complexes performed during SFG I and II. Great for group training.
I'll start running a complex pretty soon with The Big 6, and then add the 5 skills from the SFG II, for The Big 11, prep for my SFG II recert.
Sort of a chain-complex-circuit.
 
Another distinction I've heard (possibly from @Geoff Neupert ?) is "chain" vs. "complex". A kettlebell chain would be clean + press + squat + swing + clean + press. A kettlebell complex would be 3 cleans + 3 presses + 3 squats.
Taking this argument a bit further, the C&P, the C&J, the Olympic snatch (= snatch-grip high pull to overhead squat) or the muscle-up could be classified as chains (rather than "complexes" or "complex/compound exercises"), arguably also the kettlebell snatch (overhead swing to dip/catch). This would mean that many complexes contain chains, and many chains would actually be "chains of chains".
 
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Taking this argument a bit further, the C&P, the C&J, the Olympic snatch (= snatch-grip high pull to overhead squat) or the muscle-up could be classified as chains (rather than "complexes" or "complex/compound exercises"), arguably also the kettlebell snatch (overhead swing to dip/catch). This would mean that many complexes contain chains, and many chains would actually be "chains of chains".
Yes. In the Kettlebell Muscle program, some sessions are complexes with chains within them.

For instance, in one of the sessions you do 5 reps of the first exercise, then 5 C&Ps with a clean for each press, then 5 reps of the next exercise, then 5 reps of the last exercise.

It could get pretty complicated, if there were a reason for making it so.
 
I’m running Hybrid Burn Extreme currently with barbell and kettlebells. When you say body recomp are you noticing more fat loss or muscle gain or a mix of both?
Yes, mixture of both, haven't taken measurements etc but have lost body fat in midsection and shoulder and back have become more muscular. I have been back at bjj twice a week and so I wanted a short and effective program to work around this.. I have used lots of GN programs in the past and they are all effective but have found that complexes particularly the Wolf and KBM to be the most effective for body composition. To paraphrase Dan John it was working so well that I stopped doing it..



Check out Geoff making this look easy and it’s unbelievably challenging.

+1 for complexes in my book.
 
I'm ignorant in regards to what the strict definition of a complex is...
Does a complex require the combination of pulls and presses or just multiple movements?
If the latter is the case, wouldn't a TGU be a complex?
Complex = pattern of individual exercises strung together. In KB world you might also find them called a “Kettlebell Flow” which seems to be a social media mutation of kettlebells and yoga to adhere to some middle-class, hipster, influencer fashion.
 
Taking this argument a bit further, the C&P, the C&J, the Olympic snatch (= snatch-grip high pull to overhead squat) or the muscle-up could be classified as chains (rather than "complexes" or "complex/compound exercises"), arguably also the kettlebell snatch (overhead swing to dip/catch). This would mean that many complexes contain chains, and many chains would actually be "chains of chains".
Worth bringing out here. Complex and compound are not interchangeable when describing exercises. Compound is an exercise that hits multiple muscle groups and probably follows a main movement pattern (bench, OHP, squat), complex - see previous.
 
Yes, mixture of both, haven't taken measurements etc but have lost body fat in midsection and shoulder and back have become more muscular. I have been back at bjj twice a week and so I wanted a short and effective program to work around this.. I have used lots of GN programs in the past and they are all effective but have found that complexes particularly the Wolf and KBM to be the most effective for body composition. To paraphrase Dan John it was working so well that I stopped doing it..



Check out Geoff making this look easy and it’s unbelievably challenging.

+1 for complexes in my book.

Yeah, that will work.
 
Yes, mixture of both, haven't taken measurements etc but have lost body fat in midsection and shoulder and back have become more muscular. I have been back at bjj twice a week and so I wanted a short and effective program to work around this.. I have used lots of GN programs in the past and they are all effective but have found that complexes particularly the Wolf and KBM to be the most effective for body composition. To paraphrase Dan John it was working so well that I stopped doing it..



Check out Geoff making this look easy and it’s unbelievably challenging.

+1 for complexes in my book.

That one looks crazy hard. I played around with cleans+press +dfsq+rack holds and that fried me after a few rounds. Double snatch and double swing takes it to a whole other level.
 
Good to clear up different complexes and programming. To me complexes is for developing fighter strength as in being able to go hard and not running out of steam in three minute rounds. For example Engum's martial conditioning. Perhaps this should better be called a compound excercise.
Engum says wait until you can use the 24kg KB for his Clean and Jerk for martial conditining ,
The Ultimate Kettlebell Exercise for Martial Conditioning | StrongFirst
I think you need be on high level, it is temting to use it too early. I am working to get there again.
 
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Dose it realy matter how we call it. Complex, Chain, Compound....the point is you have to use the same prinzipels for this kind as for other kind of training unles it´s sport spezific.
1. Keep it Simple = 2-5 Movements
2. Heavy Load, Low Reps, Moderat to Long Pause = Built Strength
3. Midium Load, Midium Reps, Moderat Pause = Built Strenght and Muscle
4. Low Load, High Reps, Short Pause = Built Strengthendurance
Sheet fet anyways if you use a caloric defecit.
 
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