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Kettlebell Compressing Rest in S&S

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PatrickW

Level 6 Valued Member
Does anyone have a successful protocol for compressing the rest periods for swings in S&S?

The book states to compress the rest periods with the current bell before moving up in weight. Doing S&S 5 - 7 days a week, I assume that compressing the rest every session would not be a good idea. It is always pointed out that doing 100 swings in 5 minutes is the goal and not an everyday session.

Compress the rest maybe twice a week and keep the other sessions as normal? I currently do 10 reps on the top of every minute.
 

apa

Level 6 Valued Member
The most successful protocol is individual. Dont force your breathing between sets to calm down. It will do so naturally. Faster, every week.
 

NoILSteve

Level 3 Valued Member
I just go based on how I feel that day. Sometimes I want to bust through them and push hard. Some times I want to take my time. No rhyme or reason for me...
 

Kettlebelephant

Level 6 Valued Member
If you really want to compress try the following scheme I used with 2 of my friends.
I call it "PTTPing S&S", because I got the idea during my run with PTTP.
PTTP makes use of a wave progression for the weight.
That's not possible for S&S when you want to apply it to weight, but you can use it for time.

Usually I use a test to determine the starting time period, but you already established the "on the minute" time period.
We will go 4 steps forward 3 steps back.

Week 1
Mon - 1:40
Tue - 1:30
Wed - 1:20
Thu - 1:10
Fri - 1:00

Week 2
Mon - 1:30
Tue - 1:20
Wed - 1:10
Thu - 1:00
Fri - 0:50

Week 3
Mon - 1:20
Tue - 1:10
Wed - 1:00
Thu - 0:50
Fri - 0:40

...and so on (I think you get the pattern).
On friday in week 4 you'll hit the 5min time standard (a set every 0:30).
Repeat week 4 two times and you should be able to go for a heavier KB.

If you find the 10sec jumps to be too taxing go for 5sec steps instead, but start with a little less rest.
It will look like this:

Week 1
Mon - 1:20
Tue - 1:15
Wed - 1:10
Thu - 1:05
Fri - 1:00

Week 2
Mon - 1:15
Tue - 1:10
Wed - 1:05
Tue - 1:00
Fri - 0:55

...and so on.
You'll hit the time standard in week 7.
Repeat week 7 for another two times.

I'll only have the experience of two trainees, but both of them could swing the next KB (4Kg jump!!!) for 10x10 right after using the progression I just outlined.
Of course rest between sets will increase, but at least for them it was in the 2-3min range.

I haven't tested 8Kg jumps with them, but have thought about a way for a transitioning phase, which I could tell you if you want.
 

Marc

Level 6 Valued Member
Well, the nice thing about S&S is that it does not prescribe a certain time frame. Just go by feel and over time you will be able to shave time off/increase the weight. If one session takes you longer than a previous one that does not mean you did not get better, do not stress over it and take your time. In the long run you will get better if you follow S&S. Think about it like this: if you can do 100 swings and 10 TGU with 24kg in 15 mins now and then in 6 months you reach "Simple". This is the appropriate scale in terms of S&S.
 

jca17

Level 5 Valued Member
I like that variation @Kettlebelephant! I know some people like something more set on paper than autoregulation/go by feel. That's one thing I liked about PTTP. 5 reps, 5 minute rest... No thinking.

I wonder if making larger jumps could also help. For example, doing your first :30 day right after a :40 day might be kind of fatiguing. In that case, make 15 or 20 second jumps but cycle over faster and step them up by 5 or 10 seconds each cycle. So like
1:20, 1:05, 0:50, 1:10, 0:55, 0:40, 1:00, 0:45, 0:30.

Sounds like the more straightforward waves worked well for your friends though! Lots of cool stuff you can do for the person who wants to take a "do this" program and make it even more "do THIS!"

The cost is that you miss out on the auto-regulation learning experience which might really come in handy in one's future training.

And lest anyone say "that's not S&S anymore," in common practice I remember that SFGs were having clients do the swings on the minute. After a lot of experimentation, Al Ciampa advised the same thing for someone until they reach simple. The auto-regulation, strong endurance type stuff is more intermediate level stuff that one can throw in after reaching simple, but all the heart rate monitoring etc wasn't essential and was off-putting to some people on the journey to simple.
 

Kettlebelephant

Level 6 Valued Member
@jca17
You can definitely play around with different jumps or different variations of the wave progression.
For my friends it worked out fine like that. Sadly I have only the experience of those 2, so I have no idea if it still works for others.
On the other hand I'm glad that it indeed worked for them, because I used a bit of my experience with S&S and then basically pulled something out of my a.. hoping that it works :D

When I went for Simple I used a linear approach, cutting rest time every session, because I had that Simple goal I was aiming for.
Since then I have only used autoregulation and just use the clock to time my overall session (warm-up + training + cool-down/stretching) and nothing else. For S&S this feels a lot better.
For other things like deadlifts for example I still do much better with a layed out plan.
So I know both sides and can relate to @PatrickW when he says that he needs a plan.
 

Maine-ah KB

Level 7 Valued Member
I'm using the method @Mark Limbaga it works really well. 6-7 reps keeps it pretty close to 15sec on 15 off, working your way up to 10 reps is kinda easier then decreasing time. I think its because your already used the 30 second intervals.
 

Mark Limbaga

Level 7 Valued Member
Elite Certified Instructor
I have a more conservative approach vs @Kettlebelephant

S and S progression

Week 1
3 reps
4 reps
5 reps
Week 2
3 reps
4 reps
5 reps
Week 3
4 reps
5 reps
6 reps
Week 4
4 reps
5 reps
6 reps
Week 5
5 reps
6 reps
7 reps
Week 6
5 reps
6 reps
7 reps
Week 7
6 reps
7 reps
8 reps
Week 8
6 reps
7 reps
8 reps
Week 9
7 reps
8 reps
9 reps
Week 10
7 reps
8 reps
9 reps
Week 11
8 reps
9 reps
10 reps
Week 12
8 reps
9 reps
10 reps

If anyone is keen on trying out this approach, please do give me feedback on how it works for you
 

Sean M

Level 6 Valued Member
@jca17
You can definitely play around with different jumps or different variations of the wave progression.
For my friends it worked out fine like that. Sadly I have only the experience of those 2, so I have no idea if it still works for others.
On the other hand I'm glad that it indeed worked for them, because I used a bit of my experience with S&S and then basically pulled something out of my a.. hoping that it works :D

When I went for Simple I used a linear approach, cutting rest time every session, because I had that Simple goal I was aiming for.
Since then I have only used autoregulation and just use the clock to time my overall session (warm-up + training + cool-down/stretching) and nothing else. For S&S this feels a lot better.
For other things like deadlifts for example I still do much better with a layed out plan.
So I know both sides and can relate to @PatrickW when he says that he needs a plan.
I used a timer and waved the rest periods by session, always ending the week with the least amount of rest, and trying to have it be less and less time on average week to week. So a “sloppy wave” worked for me.
 

HUNTER1313

Level 6 Valued Member
How do you feel your progress was with only three sessions a week? I ask because I'm currently doing a three day a week program and I'm enjoying it
 

Steve Freides

Staff
Senior Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
@PatrickW, have you considered spending the $75 or so for a heart-rate monitor? In many ways, that could be the best of both worlds - it's auto-regulating but the gadget would tell you when you're ready for the next set and, ideally, your heart rate drops to your target with less and less rest over time.

-S-
 

PatrickW

Level 6 Valued Member
@Steve Freides I have a Chest strap HR monitor and have used it in the past. My experience was that it was not all that accurate for when to start the next set in terms of my own perceived recovery. There were times when my HR was low enough to start the next set, but my breathing didn’t match. I wouldn’t have been able to pass the talk test.

I think HR monitors are great for traditional cardio work, but not great for these shorter intervals.

YMMV
 
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