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Other/Mixed Concerned about health

Other strength modalities (e.g., Clubs), mixed strength modalities (e.g., combined kettlebell and barbell), other goals (flexibility)
You've got 100% agreement from me that your underlying health is more important than lifting poundages, and that includes worry. What I would push is the idea of trying to reduce ambiguity. That would allow you to either more vigorously pursue an answer, or, hopefully, to be at peace.
@Wyanokie I don't have specific advice, but Steve A there hit it on the head. So perhaps I can give two cents on how to approach your predicament.

I had a troublesome movement disorder for years, and when I finally met the man that would lay out the path to recovery, he basically said "it's not worth worrying about how it happened to you. It's better to focus on what you can do now to move forward." Well, something either unforseen or out of your control happened to you, but it's in the past now. You are where you are, so approach things from where you are, not where you were.

If you had a health isssue, it's in the past. Right now, you are both a) trying to figure out how to progress training/weight gain, and b) concerned whether there is something underlying that might be at play.

What I learned from my situation was to do what I could to make some kind of progress, no matter how little, and to keep trying things until something stuck. I also learned to take it "day by day" and be patient with the process.

So, my advice, for what it may be worth, is to look for solutions, rather than the source of past "problems." Try some of the above advice in this thread to see if you can regain some weight and make strength gains. Give it enough time to really tell, and then re-evaluate when you know if it helpled or not.

Hope it helps.
 
I'm going to take a simple point of view on the mental health aspect.

If you get more swole and stronger, your worries will go away.

Focus on the outcome you want, make a nutrition plan and pick programs to get you there, and check back in 6 months later when people tell you how you look amazing.

Worries gone, poof.
 
That means that when you are doing your 3 x 5 sets on your heavier day, you are at working with a 15RM weight or about 65%. To gain mass with that you'd need to be doing 2x that much volume. Then on your other day you are training even lighter. That second day is practice but it isn't stimulating much of anything in terms of mass or strength. Then...you repeat this for multiple weeks. To the extent that your body is adapting, that means that week 2 provides even less stimulus for bodily change. What was a 65% becomes a 64% effort.



As it should be! Imagine you had no experience and were learning to squat. You'd maybe start with a bare bar, get the form (including depth) down, and then you'd go up 5 lbs every time. With 2x/wk squatting you'd have hit 145 within 3 months. Now yes, you've had injuries, and it sounds like some were repeats. It might be worth a single, dedicated coaching session to make sure you are squatting to depth and with good form. With that established, I don't see why you couldn't do both sessions at the same weight and go up 5 lbs every week - for several weeks. When that got hard, then you would think about adjustments.



Bear in mind that program layout and progression are two separate things. Progression is what has hindered you, not program. Also I do not have enough experience with Oly lifting to really design such a program. So I can only tell you how I would approach the problem.


What I would not do is try to gain strength in squats and deadlifts and bench and overhead and learn oly lifts and ... not to say it can't be done. But to balance those all is probably not trivial. Especially if wanting to gain mass. Easier for a young person, but as we age each becomes slower.

@Steve A thanks. I do have a coach but I'm not sure if he's coached masters before. I'm going to absorb all of the good advice that's been given to me here and see how the next few weeks go.
@Wyanokie I don't have specific advice, but Steve A there hit it on the head. So perhaps I can give two cents on how to approach your predicament.

I had a troublesome movement disorder for years, and when I finally met the man that would lay out the path to recovery, he basically said "it's not worth worrying about how it happened to you. It's better to focus on what you can do now to move forward." Well, something either unforseen or out of your control happened to you, but it's in the past now. You are where you are, so approach things from where you are, not where you were.

If you had a health isssue, it's in the past. Right now, you are both a) trying to figure out how to progress training/weight gain, and b) concerned whether there is something underlying that might be at play.

What I learned from my situation was to do what I could to make some kind of progress, no matter how little, and to keep trying things until something stuck. I also learned to take it "day by day" and be patient with the process.

So, my advice, for what it may be worth, is to look for solutions, rather than the source of past "problems." Try some of the above advice in this thread to see if you can regain some weight and make strength gains. Give it enough time to really tell, and then re-evaluate when you know if it helpled or not.

Hope it helps.
@bluejeff good advice, I will do that.
 
So much good advice on this thread! I love how forum members really read/listen and take the time to give thoughtful advice based on a lot of great knowledge.

I'm glad to hear health checks have been done, and barring any new or worrisome symptoms, I'd put the idea of an un-diagnosed health issue out of mind. Of course, always good to listen to the body and get regular screenings done. But sounds like you have.

I suspect @Steve A is right regarding lack of specific progress. The volume is good, but the intensity stimulus at that volume is not enough to build muscle and strength.

If you do want to continue with the Olympic Lifting, I'd go all in on that. A good program even for a beginner master lifter will contain enough strength stimulus (squats, pulls, presses) to keep things going in that regard, even while you're doing full lift practice with lighter weight.

And I'll certainly second the recommendation for coaching. @randyh has been awesome for me! 2.5 years now and certainly going forward into year 3. Feel free to PM me if I can help.
 
@Anna C thank you, and yes I agree about the community here and how they share their knowledge freely and competently.

I spoke with my O-lifting coach last night, I expressed concern about progress and he concurs about intensity and following a linear progression vs. a moderate day or any sort of load waving or undulating intensity. We touched up the program I was on a bit and he gave me a nice bite-sized goal to accomplish: working towards a bodyweight squat. He said to work consistently, but with appropriate pace, over the next few weeks towards that and then we'll check in again. He added a few things and the new program is as below. Currently the O-lifting practice is 1x or 2x/week, sometimes on the strength training days. The squats are low-bar (for now).

Monday:
Back squat 3 x 5
OH press 3 x 5
Chins (3 sets)
Dips (3 sets)
Thursday:
OH press 3 x 5
Seated row 3 x 7
Dips (3 sets)
Chins (3 sets)
Friday:
Back squat 3 x 5
Deadlift 1x5 top set
1L RDL for hamstring/unilateral
 
@Anna C thank you, and yes I agree about the community here and how they share their knowledge freely and competently.

I spoke with my O-lifting coach last night, I expressed concern about progress and he concurs about intensity and following a linear progression vs. a moderate day or any sort of load waving or undulating intensity. We touched up the program I was on a bit and he gave me a nice bite-sized goal to accomplish: working towards a bodyweight squat. He said to work consistently, but with appropriate pace, over the next few weeks towards that and then we'll check in again. He added a few things and the new program is as below. Currently the O-lifting practice is 1x or 2x/week, sometimes on the strength training days. The squats are low-bar (for now).

Monday:
Back squat 3 x 5
OH press 3 x 5
Chins (3 sets)
Dips (3 sets)
Thursday:
OH press 3 x 5
Seated row 3 x 7
Dips (3 sets)
Chins (3 sets)
Friday:
Back squat 3 x 5
Deadlift 1x5 top set
1L RDL for hamstring/unilateral

If you're trying to learn weightlifting, you should switch from low bar to high bar squats.

I'd also get rid of one of the back squats and put in front squats, instead.

Front squats are mandatory for weightlifting.

TBH, the fact that a weightlifting coach would have you focus on low bar squats 2x is a bit of a red flag.

(If someone claimed to be a weightlifting coach and told me to low bar squat twice a week, I'd walk out)
 
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If you're trying to learn weightlifting, you should switch from low bar to high bar squats.

I'd also get rid of one of the back squats and put in front squats, instead.

Front squats are mandatory for weightlifting.

100% agree. You won't lose any strength-building advantage by switching, and it will be a lot more aligned with your goals getting started with weightlifting.
 
If you're trying to learn weightlifting, you should switch from low bar to high bar squats.

I'd also get rid of one of the back squats and put in front squats, instead.

Front squats are mandatory for weightlifting.

TBH, the fact that a weightlifting coach would have you focus on low bar squats 2x is a bit of a red flag.

(If someone claimed to be a weightlifting coach and told me to low bar squat twice a week, I'd walk out)

@watchnerd and @Anna C yes I should have elaborated, that's why I wrote "for now". He was emphatic about the high bar and front squats being necessary for the O-lifting. The last barbell program I was on programmed low-bar squats and I was on it for a few months. I discussed it with him and we agreed to finish the process with a low-bar squat for a few more weeks and then we're going to switch me to high-bar and front squats.
 
@John K (and everyone else who has helped me so far!) the program has evolved into the program below. I have a question pertaining to your post below (the bolded part).
Monday:
Front squat 3 x 5
OH press 3 x 5
Chins (3 sets)
Dips (3 sets)
Thursday:
Back squat 3 x 5
OH press 3 x 5
Dips (3 sets)
Chins (3 sets)
Friday:
Deadlift 1x5 top set
Seated row 3 x 7
1 LRDL (kettlebell)
The first thing I would try is to tweak your set up and get intensity going - this is a pretty small change relative to what you're doing. So, a top set each heavy day, and then taking 5-10% off and doing back offs for a little volume on one day, and on the moderate day do basically what you're doing now - take 5-10% off of your heavy day back offs and get 20 reps. Each week, hit a heavier top set on your heavy day - 155lbs this week, 160lbs next week, 165lbs the next.

John, I'm curious about this. For the record, I'm staying on a linear progression but wondered about the descending sets within the linear progress. First question is whether I'd see the same strength gains doing 1 x 5 with 2 back off sets at 90% of that weight vs. doing the 3 x 5. Also, when you say a little volume, are you going beyond 5 reps? Would the work sets look like this:

Back squat day:

1 x 5 with 150
2 x 5 with 135

Or more like this?

1 x 5 with 150
2 x 6-8 with 135

Thanks,

Wyanokie
 
If you're trying to learn weightlifting, you should switch from low bar to high bar squats.

I'd also get rid of one of the back squats and put in front squats, instead.

Front squats are mandatory for weightlifting.

TBH, the fact that a weightlifting coach would have you focus on low bar squats 2x is a bit of a red flag.

(If someone claimed to be a weightlifting coach and told me to low bar squat twice a week, I'd walk out)
I've had some success with mostly front squatting and adding in some low-bar back squats at the end sometimes. Basically some days you jsut front squat, but once in a while, you do powerlifting squats, and since you can move more weight that way, you'll end up doing something like, e.g., working up a 80% in your front squat, then switching to low-bar where the same weight is perhaps 70%, and you'll squat that and then maybe add some weight to get to your 80% low-bar back squat, and then you're done.

I'm not suggesting this is the best approach for weightlifting, but a couple of sets of low-bar back squats once or twice a week at the end of your front squats won't really hurt your weightlifting, IMO, and it'll keep you in the groove for your low-bar back squat. In my PL federation, we use a squat specialty bar, so that means I swap bars when I do this. (25 kg, longer, and knurling you could use as a wood file. I find it quite nice to squat with, truth be told.)

-S-
 
John, I'm curious about this. For the record, I'm staying on a linear progression but wondered about the descending sets within the linear progress. First question is whether I'd see the same strength gains doing 1 x 5 with 2 back off sets at 90% of that weight vs. doing the 3 x 5. Also, when you say a little volume, are you going beyond 5 reps?
It won't be the "same" strength gains. We're changing programming because what we're doing isn't working. Just doing more 3x5s isn't going to get you anywhere, but maybe you can eek out a few more PRs. Eventually you have to change what you're doing.

Alternatively, we are utilizing back offs to build a bigger base, both in our ability to handle the weight and in our muscular capacity. Jim Wendler's 5/3/1 is a great example of this - he uses backoffs frequently to stimulate strength (and muscular) gains without grinding people into dust by just pushing and pushing and pushing weight every week. In which case, we might not see the same short term gains but we see a much longer run of improvements.

When I say a little volume, "it depends." Some of this depends on how much you take off - if you hit a 5RM and take 10% off, you are probably almost certainly not going to be doing sets of 10 with that! If you hit a 5RM and take 20% off, you might be able do higher reps, or more sets. Some of it also depends on how many reps you hit in your top set - if you hit a top set of 10 reps, and take 25% off, you are probably going to be able to do a lot more volume, e.g. 3-5 sets of 8-12.
 
and since you can move more weight that way

I do low bar so infrequently I actually can't lift more that way. ;)

But, seriously, as long as you're front squatting sufficiently heavy to support your clean, it probably doesn't matter that much what kind of back squat you use if you want to cross train between WL and PL.

For beginning weightlifters, squat strength isn't usually the limiting factor, anyway.
 
@Steve A @Steve Freides @watchnerd @John K @Anna C Happy New Year, and I just wanted to follow up on this thread. Thank you for your help and input. I took all of your advice, especially that of @Steve A and those who echoed his advice of "pushing it" (paraphrasing him) and I put 20 lb on my deadlift, 15 lb on my back squat, 15 lb on my front squat and 5 lb on my press between the time I first started this thread and the end of December. I suppose I'll keep going until I start to get 'stuck' and then being applying @John K 's advice about top sets.

Thank you again!
 
I'm going to take a simple point of view on the mental health aspect.

If you get more swole and stronger, your worries will go away.

Focus on the outcome you want, make a nutrition plan and pick programs to get you there, and check back in 6 months later when people tell you how you look amazing.

Worries gone, poof.

@watchnerd just wanted you to know that I took this advice. I've switched to a program with higher reps and a focus on muscle building, and put on about 5 lb of muscle so far. Yes getting complements and people see the changes, and I feel strongly that the increase in muscle mass will help me in the strength training journey down the road. So thank you again for the advice.

You and I believe one other person mentioned testosterone. My total testosterone is up from last year, now over 600. My free testosterone is 6.8 pg/ml, which came in on the low side of the range (which I don't believe is corrected for my age of 51, but not sure). Can anyone comment on that number? My primary care physician really focused on my total T numbers and raved that they are higher than most 51 year olds, but having free T numbers below the established range makes me want to at least ask about it.
 
I wanted to reach out to ask for some advice because I'm growing increasingly concerned. I know that the title of the thread will cause people to say 'go see a doctor' but I have and they cannot find anything. I'm wondering if this has happened to anyone else here and if it's normal or if there's something I'm missing.

Back story: I'm currently 50 years old. From 2003-2019 I did a combination, rotating, of boxing, muay Thai, some jiujitsu, and some barbell and dumbell training to keep myself healthy for martial arts (did some kettlebell work in 2018-2019 but it was minimal). Usually (not always) I ate healthy and didn't have many problems with performance. When the pandemic hit, I couldn't train martial arts so went down the rabbit hole with kettlebells. Trained average of 4 days/week with 1H, 2H swings, goblet squats, and TGU's with a 20kg bell (the program was very close to S and S but not exactly). I also tried O-lifts and got moderately competent early on with technique but had to stop because of tendonitis of the knee and a hip flexor injury. Post pandemic I'm currently back on the barbell work and working again through O-lift technique with the baby bar to get myself on track and learn the sport.

Here's what I'm concerned about: in 2017, I weighed >210 lb. Without trying through diet adjustment, I lost about 10 lb/year for 4 years. I bottomed out at 176 and am locked in at 176 lb. Won't budge. I do walk a lot more and still do kettlebell work, but can't imagine that I would lose THAT much weight from it. I got bloodwork and the only concerns were that my a1c was 5.7 (which surprised me because I currently eat very balanced and healthy meals) and my egfr was very low but they retested that and it was fine, so it was probably a blip. No other concerns and I got screened for colon cancer. Doctor says I'm healthy. My joints don't hurt (I actually feel better than I did when I was in my 20s and 30s), my mobility and stability are up, and I'm working out regularly. Only other changes are that I'm a little more tired on a day-to-day basis and that I'm sleeping very long and deep at night, which can be expected from the barbell.

My biggest concern: I can't gain weight, and I'm weaker than I was. Despite training barbell work for over a year now, my squat and deadlift numbers are pretty low (I squat 145 lb 3x5 reps and deadlift about 215 2 or 3 sets of 5). I lift 3-4 days/week. The weights are slowly going up but it seems glacial. Now I know that people would advise me to push it and give it time but I think I'm stuck in that negative feedback loop where I don't have the muscle mass to increase my lifts and without pushing it the muscles aren't growing. I'm eating lots of protein, balanced meals, veggies, etc, sleeping 8+ hours per night.

I could really use some help or direction here. Has anyone experienced age-related sarcopenia before this early in life? If so, what helped? Does anyone else's gut say that I should be concerned, or is this just normal for someone who is doing moderate weights? Really banging my head against the wall here and could use some help working through this, if even to point me in the right direction of where to go next.

Thanks for your help
If money isn’t too much of an issue, I would suggest getting some coaching. Having someone else look at your lifts, give you technical coaching, and an accurate training cycle will pay dividends if you really want to get strong. I like all the plans provided such as pttp, however, I tend to lift too conservative when making a plan for myself. Maybe trying something like a barbell or kettlebell military press custom plan from plan strong along with a zercher squat or deadlift plan would really add some serious strength in just 8-16 weeks. To start I would do like one plan strong then switch to something like Reload which is based on 5x5 training. Then go back to plan strong. In 24 weeks, you will get stronger along with a little coaching. You could get a Strongfirst coach or look up a powerlifting coach near you. Maybe after a few cycles switch to a minimalist program like s&s, build up to simple then decide where to go from there. If you are like me, I know I can push my body hard and finding that middle ground where the weights are challenging but not so hard I dont have to plan a lot of recovery. Thats where a good coach comes into play for me to give me the direction I need to have a solid plan without short changing myself or over working into diminishing returns. But I would say when you find what is not working, then going to someone else is the best course of action.
 
@watchnerd just wanted you to know that I took this advice. I've switched to a program with higher reps and a focus on muscle building, and put on about 5 lb of muscle so far. Yes getting complements and people see the changes, and I feel strongly that the increase in muscle mass will help me in the strength training journey down the road. So thank you again for the advice.

You and I believe one other person mentioned testosterone. My total testosterone is up from last year, now over 600. My free testosterone is 6.8 pg/ml, which came in on the low side of the range (which I don't believe is corrected for my age of 51, but not sure). Can anyone comment on that number? My primary care physician really focused on my total T numbers and raved that they are higher than most 51 year olds, but having free T numbers below the established range makes me want to at least ask about it.
It is possible that you overtrain. Low testosterone can be a result of overtraining.
Do you recover from your workouts? Do you eat and sleep enough? Do you periodize your training? Do you take deload weeks?
 
Not being a doctor, my off the cuff advise is to EAT MORE FAT and do complex moves like TURKISH GET UPS. And by fat I don't mean potato chips. I mean ribeye steaks, salmon, egg yolks. And do complex moves only. Deadlifts, Turkish Get Ups and other moves that overload the nervous system. Also try dropping to 2 days per week to increase recovery time. You could do Simple & Sinister or Deadlifts & Get Ups but just twice per week. Then EAT.

I'm 50 years old and although my workout has changed from barbells to Kettlebells only, my weight is the same. I am 220 lbs. but I eat rich foods. No suppliments, but plenty of beef, eggs, fish.
While I appreciate your advice and your commitment to a healthy lifestyle at 50, I want to consider my own age, which is 52. I'll take your recommendations to heart, emphasizing the importance of incorporating rich foods like ribeye steaks, salmon, and egg yolks into my diet. I'll also focus on complex movements such as Turkish Get Ups and Deadlifts to engage my nervous system effectively. Your suggestion of reducing workout frequency to two days per week for enhanced recovery resonates with me. As I navigate my fitness journey at 52, I'll tailor your insights to suit my age and individual needs. Thanks for sharing your experience!
 
We touched up the program I was on a bit and he gave me a nice bite-sized goal to accomplish: working towards a bodyweight squat. He said to work consistently, but with appropriate pace, over the next few weeks towards that and then we'll check in again. He added a few things and the new program is as below. Currently the O-lifting practice is 1x or 2x/week, sometimes on the strength training days. The squats are low-bar (for now).
I'm just seeing this now (after a year of not reading the thread). How much do you weigh? You mention later that gained 15lb on your back squat, where is it now? How are things coming along?
 
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