conditioning using Q&D principles

Michael20

Double-Digit Post Count
I purchased Q&D but have not accomplished the base strength to use it yet. However, I started implementing similar energy system training into my conditioning and I have found it helpful. One of my routines for GPP is doing warm up/mobility work at my house, run 1.5 to gym, practice strength, and run home. For past several weeks I have been doing hill running. I will run from my house to a hill, perform about 6 repeats of 15-18 sec all out sprints up the hill, walk to bottom of hill and do 5-8 fast pushups.

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Oscar

> 1k Posts
I will run from my house to a hill, perform about 6 repeats of 15-18 sec all out sprints up the hill
Isn't 15-18 seconds too long? It can hardly be a sprint lasting so long. When I did hill sprints and push ups doing 033 protocol, I found it hard to sprint longer than 7 seconds. Having discussed it further here in the forum, maybe 4 seconds of hill sprints is the sweet spot (at least for me).
 

Bro Mo

> 1k Posts
I would go about 8 seconds and do more of them keeping the rest pretty long. I start to lose power between 8-10 seconds. When I was doing hill sprints it was about 35 yards to make that time.

A heart rate monitor can help. I would get my heart rate up to about 150 and then go again when it got down to 110.
 

Bauer

> 1k Posts
Here are some quotes on sprint length by the mighty Harald Motz :)
I pulled my hamstring doing 10 sec hill sprints using the 044 protocol. 10 seconds was a bad idea.

+1 to the perceived effort as well vs. The snatch. At equal duration, the sprint feels way way harder to me (my snatch weight is 24 not 40, so that may play a part).
It's crazy what an all out sprint does. My sprints of 'just' 4 second to 10-11sec of 5 snatches.

FWIW, I have tried these up and down hill - I far prefer flat ground. Sprinting is hard enough.

-S-
It is not to make the sprints harder but 'safer', much less eccentric loading and less impact on the landing.

I prefer flat ground too. And for anyone that wants to try this on hills I highly suggest you ease into it over time. A few years ago I started doing hill sprints on a fairly steep hill. It was about 80 yds and I would sprint up and walk down 8 times. And like an idiot I went all out on day one. After a week of that I could barely walk and had severe plantar fasciitis that took me nearly 2 years to get over and I still have lingering effects from it to this day.
Easing into is always a good suggestion, but not when it comes to myself...
I do some regular jogging for the past 3 years or so and my technique is more towards forefoot landing (I started doing this maybe 20 years ago). So I think my feet got a bit of condutioning by that.

But nevertheless, sprinting is a special poison in many ways. And just a second more ore less (regarding to the q&d protocol) makes a hell of a difference. When rapid and deep depletion of the ATP/Crp system is an aim sprinting seems to be the fastest way...
The main power output portion would probably be in the 4-6
For me 4 sec is spot on. 5sec was 'to much' I experimented the last year quite a lot with the 033 and 044 template 'naked' style: jumps, hill sprints, pushups.

Sprints are regarded as 'power training' as long as you are accelerating. I felt that I reached top speed at 4 seconds, and the last set can be quite hard.

In spring/summer (after a few longer flat sprints (8-10 sec) on which I came to a slight muscle tear really fast last year...) I had my first real sprint exposure for a longer period of time, and I found the hill great.

the first 2 or three sessions the legs were worked thoroughly with a bit of soreness overall. To me it seems literally the fastest way to deplete the ATP/Cpr system. On the perceived effort level they more than hold the candle to me to snatching 40kg in the (5r/4) frame.

for Q&D sprinting I use a gymboss interval timer and start each sprint out of a slow jog, from beep to beep.

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hill sprints for four seconds within the 033 frame.

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hill sprints on the 044 snatch frame.

jumps work also great. I go with 6 per repeat:
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6 jumps x4 every 3 minutes for six series.
 

Michael20

Double-Digit Post Count
Thanks for the feedback! Yes, I keep a timer and rest for 3 min between repeats. See pages 31-33 of Q&D. 10-20 sec window if your goal is to improve mitochondria development.
 

Harald Motz

> 2k Posts
Certified Instructor
When considering sprinting as an application I cite page 40 of Q&D:

"When the chosen exercise is a sprint, its duration has to be limited to less than six seconds, the acceleration phase. Once the athlete has reached the top speed, no matter how high it is, power leaves the building. Without acceleration - a change in velocity - there is no force and thus, no power.

Sprinters typically take about six seconds or 50-60 meters to accelerate to top speed from a static start. Game athletes need 30-45 meters and non athletes even less than that..."

...This under-six-second time limit does not apply to non-locomotion exercises like swings and pushups: there is a new acceleration in every rep..."

Personally I like to use hill sprints in the 5/4 format with 4 seconds going from a flying start. I did 5 seconds in the beginning but quickly felt it was a bit 'to much'

These sprints are the fastest way to deplete that ATP/Crp system in my opinion and subjective feel.
 

Bro Mo

> 1k Posts
"When the chosen exercise is a sprint, its duration has to be limited to less than six seconds, the acceleration phase. Once the athlete has reached the top speed, no matter how high it is, power leaves the building. Without acceleration - a change in velocity - there is no force and thus, no power.
Hill sprints are a little different animal because of the additional deceleration on every stride from gravity though. One never really hits full speed on a hill sprint and power can be applied every stride in a hill; well, theoretically because hill sprints suck and are hard and the power source drains rapidly preventing it.
 

Steve Freides

Forum Administrator
Senior Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
@Michael20, you would enjoy attending Strong Endurance. Your "similar energy conditioning training" isn't Q&D, but that doesn't mean it's ineffective, either. At the risk of making an overly simple argument, perhaps you're doing S&S sprinting and not Q&D sprinting.

-S-
 

Bro Mo

> 1k Posts
Has anyone done more Q&D sprinting? I'm considering using it more often. Historically I've done a bit of hill sprints for about 8s with long rest between reps but haven't ever done the Q&D timing. We also moved so my driveway isn't a long hill anymore either.

I took my daughter out to the track this weekend and I'm thinking the 5/4 being about 30m and the 10/2 being about 50m. I don't think we're freewheeling just yet at 50m. Volume might be too much though depending on the total number of clusters.
 

Oscar

> 1k Posts
Has anyone done more Q&D sprinting? I'm considering using it more often. Historically I've done a bit of hill sprints for about 8s with long rest between reps but haven't ever done the Q&D timing. We also moved so my driveway isn't a long hill anymore either.

I took my daughter out to the track this weekend and I'm thinking the 5/4 being about 30m and the 10/2 being about 50m. I don't think we're freewheeling just yet at 50m. Volume might be too much though depending on the total number of clusters.
We had a brief exchange on this with @Harald Motz, for hill sprints, not flat sprints. The conclusion was about 4 seconds duration for the 5/4 protocol. We didnt discuss 10/2. I'll try to find the thread.

I tried hill sprints with a duration of 7 seconds, for 5/4, and ended up pulling my hamstring. It was too much. I had the idea of 7 seconds because a set of 5 snatches lasts 10 seconds, but it didnt work well. It felt a lot more demanding than snatches. Apparently sprinting is harder. I dont sprint regularly, so that might have played a part.

Edit: here are some related threads:



 
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Bro Mo

> 1k Posts
Thanks @Oscar
Sprinting without training it regularly is a quick way to a hamstring injury like you've experienced. A lot of hamstring injuries I've experienced have been remedied with a significant dynamic warmup and improved mechanics to strike under the body rather than in front of it.

Most of the sprint training I've studied has ATP-CrP drained heavily by ~60m and completely by ~100m. On a hill, I would shorten that to 30m and 50m respectively. It makes sense that experience has been less than 30m on a hill for 5/4 and I wouldn't go beyond 40m on a hill for 10/2.

Flat sprints are a little different animal than a hill too. Easier to pull a hamstring and the acceleration phase isn't perpetual. It's nice that one can just go back and forth between two points rather than have to get to the bottom to start again though.
 

Harald Motz

> 2k Posts
Certified Instructor
Thanks @Harald Motz
Is there a reason you focus on velocity rather than acceleration by doing flying starts?
Not a special reason at all. In this manner I am moving constantly. Also I have no special reasons for sprinting as just for the sake of it which in itself is already enough of a reason when you see it as an 'primal pattern'

Last spring/summer I 'trained' it for the first time for quite a few sessions. Two years ago I tried out some flat sprinting also a longer time frame and quickly got an issue in obe quad.

So last year I've put hill sprints on the 033/044 frame. I think I started with 6 seconds and quickly found personally, that even 5 seconds were to much.

the first two or three sessions the whole legs felt worked thoroughly a bit of comfortable soreness. But I never had any tear or strain. My 'warm up' was a 5min jog to the hill and then I went as fast as I can really quickly.

To me short sprinting bursts are literally the fastest way do deplete the rocket fuel. Sometimes on a session I even thought snatches can not hold a candle, but essentially it comes down to intent, power production, work/rest.

Lately I am doing heavy cluster singles with a hexbar, barbellsquat, press...the cluster guidelines resemble the Q&D guidelines to a great degree. Heart rate profiles look quite similar with...jumps, sprints, snatches, deadlifts. That must mean nothing, but there is a continuum from 'fast strength' to 'slow strength'.
 

Steve Freides

Forum Administrator
Senior Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
For sprinting, I have found it helpful to count steps and not measure time. I know that, when I run distance, I do about 180 steps per minutes, which works out to be about 3 per second. I therefore keep my sprints in Q&D format to 15-20 steps each. My turnover rate is higher when I sprint although I haven't measured it. For reference, world-class sprinters seem to do 4 - 4.5 steps per second (and obviously cover much more ground per step than I do at any speed.).

So if we assume I'm doing 3.5 steps per second and taking 20 steps, that's roughly 6 seconds.

Before Q&D was published, but after I'd attended Strong Endurance, I used a format of 4 sprints on the minute, a 4-5 minute rest, and 4 more sprints on the minute. This was not a scientific design; it represents a round trip from my home to the local post office while carrying a small package to be mailed - 4 sprints on the way there, however long it takes to be in line and mail my package, and 4 more sprints on the way home.

These felt Q&D-like, which is to say they left me feeling great afterwards. Upwards of 30 steps also felt good but maybe my turnover rate was closer to 4/sec, which means 30 steps is 7.5 seconds.

-S-
 
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