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5/3/1 - Back from the Dead(lift)

bluejeff said:
Yes and no. It's going from a handstand to a bent arm planche and back up again. I like the move because it takes the shoulder through a large ROM, and even if one doesn't practice the move freestanding, it's easily scalable from pike position, or with the feet elevated on something. Back before my shoulder injury in 2016, I was getting close to doing it in a straddle. Since then, my main battle has been re-educating my shoulders to move the way they need, which the left is stubbornly refusing to do. No direct shoulder pain, but my left scap refuses to upwardly rotate when it should despite all my best efforts, and my neck ends up picking up the slack, which leads to tension and headaches.... so I've been trying to find things that get it moving right without that happening, and doing "90"-degree pike pushups seems to be pretty close.

Simon makes it look like he weighs nothing when he does them....


Also, there are lots of calisthenics athletes and coaches who say you should train however you'd like. I think the mindful mover, Stephen Low, and Simon (above) all say that you probably get more benefit from doing dynamic work. Some folks out there also say that if you want to be good at statics, you have to train them at least some of the time. Given that muscles seem to gain strength throughout their entire ROM when trained at longer lengths, I'd say that dynamics probably have a lot of carryover.
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Ahhh yes, okay I’ve seen this one. It’s pretty awesome.

Sorrry to hear about the shoulder. I’ve had a fair amount of trouble in this region as well. May I ask what caused it? I ruptured my pec/tore my labrum almost a decade ago and the aftereffects still linger…

I think a mix of both dynamic and static movements are beneficial. However, statics held for extended periods until struggle and shaking, I find counterproductive. I held an 8 second tuck planche today with little struggle and felt it better than holding a 12 second one that would exhaust me.

I also like “prying movements”. I’ve been practicing the piked/straddle planche position by sort of “nudging” myself in and out of it. It’s sort of a mix between dynamic and static.
 
Well, my current shoulder issue is more of a weird movement compensation that I think arose out of being forced to use my left hand almost exclusively (I was born right handed) when I had problems with the right. First, I injured the right shoulder and had to have surgergy. There was a bone spur under the acromion and my supraspinatus and labrum were all beat up. Thankfully I didn't have to have a repair. Then I developed a movement disorder with my right hand (focal dystonia) which took all the way up until last year-ish to mostly rehab myself out of. It wasn't until a few months ago that I could finally write totally comfortably with the right hand again.

So, long story short, I think living under stress as a right-handed person learning to live left handed caused me to take on a slew of postural and other compensatory patterns. Now my left shoulder just sort of collapses into a deep downward rotation when I do things like pushups, similar to scapular winging. It's improved to the point where it doesn't cause pain anymore, but if I'm not super careful, my neck muscles (mostly levator, I think...) take up the slack and I get a tight neck which can result in headaches.

The interesting thing is that it is teaching me to protract really hard again lol, which is what you're supposed to do in lots of pushing calisthenics moves. That's why I was saying that training planche might actually help. At least it would be cool if it would.

Regarding "prying," Simon, again, often has promoted moving or pulsing in and out of a harder variation of the hold you are working on. For example, holding a tuck planche, and pulsing in and out of advanced tuck.
 
bluejeff said:
Well, my current shoulder issue is more of a weird movement compensation that I think arose out of being forced to use my left hand almost exclusively (I was born right handed) when I had problems with the right. First, I injured the right shoulder and had to have surgergy. There was a bone spur under the acromion and my supraspinatus and labrum were all beat up. Thankfully I didn't have to have a repair. Then I developed a movement disorder with my right hand (focal dystonia) which took all the way up until last year-ish to mostly rehab myself out of. It wasn't until a few months ago that I could finally write totally comfortably with the right hand again.

So, long story short, I think living under stress as a right-handed person learning to live left handed caused me to take on a slew of postural and other compensatory patterns. Now my left shoulder just sort of collapses into a deep downward rotation when I do things like pushups, similar to scapular winging. It's improved to the point where it doesn't cause pain anymore, but if I'm not super careful, my neck muscles (mostly levator, I think...) take up the slack and I get a tight neck which can result in headaches.

The interesting thing is that it is teaching me to protract really hard again lol, which is what you're supposed to do in lots of pushing calisthenics moves. That's why I was saying that training planche might actually help. At least it would be cool if it would.

Regarding "prying," Simon, again, often has promoted moving or pulsing in and out of a harder variation of the hold you are working on. For example, holding a tuck planche, and pulsing in and out of advanced tuck.
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Ahh I see. Well, it seems you have learned quite a bit about this shoulder situation so that will at least benefit you in continuing to move forward with it.

Pulsing…that is probably the word I should use. Yes, of course it seems a necessary step for advancing for it is necessary to move in and out of the new position, as well as the strength developed to do so. I see it like micro repetitions.
 
Day 1

3 rounds

A1) FL eccentrics
A2) OAP x 3
A3) Pistol (from floor) x 3
A4) OA active hangs x 1 per side
A5) Piked Planche holds on bars x 3

Day 2

3 Rounds

A1) OA Australian Pullups x 5 per side
A2) Planche Lean Push-ups x 3
A3) Pistols/SLDL x 3/5
A4) FL Advanced Tucks holds x 1
A5) OAOLPA x 2 per side

Day 3

A1) FL straddle pulls x 3
A2) OAP w 26 kgs x 1,2,3
A3) Pistol work
A4) OA lockouts x 2 per side
A5) Adv Tuck Planche holds (band assist) x 3

Working more on my left leg for pistols since it has difficulty while right leg is fine. Conversely, my left side is better at hinging, thus hip movements for the right side and knee dominant movements for the left side.

Want to add more mobility, as I feel it would assist with certain movements. For example shoulder mobility will help with the OA chin-up and hip mobility for achieving better straddle positions.
 
My, it’s been some time. Where do I begin??? Well heck, I’m back in the US from Paris. I made great headway in my calisthenics journey, getting SOOOOO close to several goals. However, overuse injuries won the day and pushed me back to the point of barely training the past month at all. However, upon my return, I joined a powerlifting gym. Back to the bar, it looks like. It seems like a good shuffle back and forth, going from calisthenics back to iron. I’ve accrued several aches and pains and the cold chill of winter has only magnified the accompanying stiffness. However, I’ve undertaken a basic 5/3/1 program to get my butt back into gear. Here’s Day 1

Day 1
Squats - 175 x 5, 205 x 5, 225 x 8
RDL’s, push-ups, bw rows

Man I’m out of shape, weak, immobile. Staying healthy becomes priority. My joints need to move again, the blood flowing. Let’s start slowly. Training now becomes more of making myself “feel” better physically. However, the desire to setPRs lurks somewhere in the shadow of my mind.

My legs were already screaming before I left the gym.

My back needs special care, along with my elbows and shoulders which, from the abuse of planche, front lever and one arm chin-up pursuits, protested a bit to squats. Rep work will be better than pure heavy lifting for a while. Hip mobility, bracing and going heavy but not toooo heavy are of the essence. This first week will be a grind but I’ll catch the flow quickly. Anyway, looking forward to it.
 
Hello @Philippe Geoffrion

Welcome back !

A loooong time ago, I was able to do one arm chins and also a solid front lever, after having chasing them for a while. Fortunately enough, I did not have overuse injury but with time comes knowledge, therefore, here are a few things I'd have done differently, hoping you'll not do the same mistakes I made, and also will save you time:
- increasing weighted pull ups / chin ups (a),
- dedicate more time to specific core training (b),
- adding gentle cardio (c),

(a)
This is less traumatic for joints I think. Plus, it also transfer better to "real world" applications. Indeed, OAP/C are both physically AND technically demanding. Nonetheless, I do not see a moment where I am supposed to lift myself up using this "twisting" motion using only one arm.

From what I remember, once you reach 4-5 reps with 75% of your bdw added, you have enough raw strength to perform the OAC/P. The rest is just pure technique.

(b)
That's the only injury I got: I hurt my lats. Indeed, I was only doing FL work, but no assistance work... Even being fairly progressive, I did not work on muscle endurance to handle volume. That was a mistake.

(c)
Adding some very light cardio, such as easy ruck or easy run is - IMHO - something to consider. Indeed, it will help you to recover faster from the hard calisthenics sessions. Nothing crazy here. 2 or 3 20-30 minutes easy run (aerobic zone, talk test) are enough. That's something I did not do...

I hope it can serve you well and also wish you good luck for your goals !

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
pet' said:
Hello @Philippe Geoffrion

Welcome back !

A loooong time ago, I was able to do one arm chins and also a solid front lever, after having chasing them for a while. Fortunately enough, I did not have overuse injury but with time comes knowledge, therefore, here are a few things I'd have done differently, hoping you'll not do the same mistakes I made, and also will save you time:
- increasing weighted pull ups / chin ups (a),
- dedicate more time to specific core training (b),
- adding gentle cardio (c),

(a)
This is less traumatic for joints I think. Plus, it also transfer better to "real world" applications. Indeed, OAP/C are both physically AND technically demanding. Nonetheless, I do not see a moment where I am supposed to lift myself up using this "twisting" motion using only one arm.

From what I remember, once you reach 4-5 reps with 75% of your bdw added, you have enough raw strength to perform the OAC/P. The rest is just pure technique.

(b)
That's the only injury I got: I hurt my lats. Indeed, I was only doing FL work, but no assistance work... Even being fairly progressive, I did not work on muscle endurance to handle volume. That was a mistake.

(c)
Adding some very light cardio, such as easy ruck or easy run is - IMHO - something to consider. Indeed, it will help you to recover faster from the hard calisthenics sessions. Nothing crazy here. 2 or 3 20-30 minutes easy run (aerobic zone, talk test) are enough. That's something I did not do...

I hope it can serve you well and also wish you good luck for your goals !

Kind regards,

Pet'
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Great information @pet'

My core is definitely a weak pont (especially with long legs) even getting any type of hollow with tuck planche is very difficult (my back is basically flat).

The OAC I think was the hardest on my joints. I worked up to pretty solid negatives and assisted OAC with bands but this is where the elbow pain started. Eventually, something happened in my right last (or upper back) that made even better pull-ups hard!!!! This has since improved but the tiny tweak is still present.

I definitely think I needed more movement preparation and off days.
 
pet' said:
Even being fairly progressive, I did not work on muscle endurance to handle volume. That was a mistake.
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Philippe Geoffrion said:
I definitely think I needed more movement preparation and off days.
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As @pet' said above… those high level calisthenics skills require good physical preparation. I know I mention Gymnastic Bodies a lot, but that’s the reason. When I started that kind of training, it was all about soft tissue preparation. Coach Sommer constantly harped about not rushing things and only really approaching more difficult progressions once current ones were comfortable at volume. IIRC early planche progressions we’re something like five sets of 30 seconds for planche leans alone. With “perfect” form. It’s a very common training error in that world to work much too close to one’s maximum capacity, ie training planche and lever holds at a point where you fail or collapse at the end of the set. It’s better (if more boring) to train strength, not test/demonstrate it.

Off days: yes. It’s so fun to train calisthenics that I love to do it as much as my energy allows! But yes, those tweaks will creep up on you if you don’t regulate recovery.

While many have attained skills with lower training volumes, the above approach is definitely the safer, albeit longer-term approach. Plenty of calisthenics athletes on social media have their lists of injuries to show for it.

Anyway :) I don’t mean to write a lecture. I hope your aches and pains heal up. Welcome back stateside. Happy training!
 
bluejeff said:
As @pet' said above… those high level calisthenics skills require good physical preparation. I know I mention Gymnastic Bodies a lot, but that’s the reason. When I started that kind of training, it was all about soft tissue preparation. Coach Sommer constantly harped about not rushing things and only really approaching more difficult progressions once current ones were comfortable at volume. IIRC early planche progressions we’re something like five sets of 30 seconds for planche leans alone. With “perfect” form. It’s a very common training error in that world to work much too close to one’s maximum capacity, ie training planche and lever holds at a point where you fail or collapse at the end of the set. It’s better (if more boring) to train strength, not test/demonstrate it.

Off days: yes. It’s so fun to train calisthenics that I love to do it as much as my energy allows! But yes, those tweaks will creep up on you if you don’t regulate recovery.

While many have attained skills with lower training volumes, the above approach is definitely the safer, albeit longer-term approach. Plenty of calisthenics athletes on social media have their lists of injuries to show for it.

Anyway :) I don’t mean to write a lecture. I hope your aches and pains heal up. Welcome back stateside. Happy training!
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Thanks @bluejeff ! No need for apologies, I enjoy digesting new information. It is indeed easy to rush especially since a lot of times I need training to be (gasp) FUN and my lord, the drab repetition of static holds just really challenges my patience and attention.

Anyway, for the time being, it’ll be nice to lift again (I’ve missed it) and allow recuperation from the rigor mortis stiffness (pump helps this, surprise surprise). “Heavy lifting” will be worked up to which brings me to today’s training…
 
Day 2

Bench Press - 135 lbs x 5 x 5 reps
Inc Rows/Dbell Press - 50 x 18/20
Cable face pulls, extensions, curls

Wow. Easiest bench day I’ve ever had, and at my age, that’s a welcome victory. Starting light is only something you appreciate after the mileage surpasses 100k, I guess but to have bench feel good? I’m flabbergasted …

Taking a narrow grip (thumbs from smooth), for several reasons. I’m strongest at a wide grip but training the narrow grip is far more beneficial for shoulder health, ROM and overall development. For the presses/rows, I just warmup with two prior sets and do an “all out” last set. I emphasize “all out” because it’s more up until “okay, that’s good” instead of a huff and puff, Barbarian bros imitation session.

Cables for pump, some other prefab work. My back and legs are still pummeled. Some prowler work to finish up.
 
Day 3

Deadlifts - 245 lbs x 5, 205 x 5 x 5
Dips - 10,10,20
OAR - 32 kgs x 10,10,15
RESS - x 10, 10 lbs x 10, 20 lbs x 10

Was worried about deadlifts before today as I haven’t done them for some time and my back stiffness has left me wary of injury. However, they felt great after the warmup.

The reps fly up but I must be keen with warmups, especially when it’s cold. I can’t afford i jury so conditioning and training smart will take precedence. What I mean by conditioning is accruing volume for the lower back and hamstrings. This is where the 5 x 5 comes in. I’m sticking with 5 reps for the top sets for now. Pr sets will come in time.

The top set is done for dead stop reps a la PTTP style. The touch and go reps are done for the 5 x 5 sets. This is similar to the Surovetsky cycle of PTTP PRO. I think both are beneficial. To me, dead stop is the brick and TnG are the mortar. The former are better for safety with heavier weight and the latter build muscle mass, stability and better ROM plus endurance of the back, which I need. Tbh, my back was feeling great after the deads which is a big victory for me.

Assistance is casual. You ll botice I train full body 4 x a week. I enjoy this setup as light/medium and heavy days are interchanged This has been helpful for progress and keeping my whole body moving constantly. I’ve also omitted the warmup routine, basics mobility but on my warmup sets per lift, I do other exercises like jumps and Plyo push-ups in between squats and pushups respectively and certain stretches or activation like band exercises. Before deadlifts, it was swings today and glute bridges/hip flexor stretches. During the main 5/3/1 sets, I just rest and focus on the main lift.

I’d normally take a rest day but have projected this week to the business of the next. 3 things I wanna keep track of are

1. Always doing mobility before and stretching after training.
2. Keep up with conditioning after upper days (sled work).
3. Listening to my body and recovering properly.
 
Day 4

Press - 75,85,95 lbs x 5, 75 x 5 x 10 sets
Pullups - 3 x 14 sets

Cable high pulls -15 x 3 sets
OA Prone Press - 16 kgs,20 kgs, 24 kgs x 15

Skullcrushers - 75 lbs x 6,6
Barbell Curls - 75 lbs x 5,5

Prowler

Very close grip for press. Index right next to smooth. Pullups between each set. Had some tweak a month back where I could barely do a PU. Some right shoulder niggle. Overall, a good week back.
 
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