Bodyweight Conjugate training with calisthenics?

[the hansenator]

Would conjugate training work with bodyweight exercises? And is there a reason to choose that method of programming over another?

I did some googling and didn't really find anything on it. Part of me assumes that if it was a good idea than people would be doing it and writing about it.

 

[Maine-ah KB]

conjegate requeires a lot of adjustment in load and exercise selection. It’s really hard to do that with bodyweight. Look at one arm push-ups, it’s such a specific skill that practicing other push-up variations isn’t that effective to achieve it (imho) plus speed work be tricky since there’s so much control involved.

It may work with say pullups, if you were all ready fairly strong at them.

 

[Deleted member 5559]

Sure, just do a high load day for low reps and a light load day for speed or high reps.

ME: One-Arm Push-Up (Weighted up to a rep max or decline to add resistance)
DE: Two-Arm Clapping Pushups (GTG or long rest between small sets, incline to reduce resistance if necessary)

ME: Hand-Stand Push-Up
DE: Max Rep Two-Hand Push-Ups

ME: Weighted Pull-Up
DE: Inclined Row

ME: Pistol
DE: Squat Jump

etc.

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

Would conjugate training work with bodyweight exercises? And is there a reason to choose that method of programming over another?

Absolutely

The benefit of Conjugate Training is that it provide a Synergistic Strength Training Effect; one type of Strength Training enhancing the other.

That means Limit Strength Training (1 Repetition Max) Training combined with Speed, Power and or Hypertrophy Training promotes Limits Strength.

Limit Strength Training also enhances Speed, Power and Hypertrophy.

I have provide several in depth post on the follow...

Dr Michael Zourdos' Research

Zourdos' PhD Dissertation demonstrated that combining Hypertrophy, Power and Limits Strength Training increased lifter 1 Repetition Max.

Westside Powerlifting Method

The foundation of this program is Conjugate Training. It been around since circa 1980. It provide the empirical/real world application demonstrating Conjugate Training works.

Olympic Lifters

The Westside Powerlifting is based on Olympic Lifter Conjugate Training; combining Limit Strength Training along with Power Training.

Part of me assumes that if it was a good idea than people would be doing it and writing about it.

Making Assumptions

As the saying goes, "When you ASSUME means that you make an a#@ out of you and me."

Alien Analogy

As the story goes, Aliens visit a Basketball game. They report their (assumed) finding back to their leader...

"Playing Basketball make you tall. Sitting in the bleacher make you short."

The Take Home Message

Snapshot of information never provide the whole picture.

"People doing it and writing about it"

The majority of individual in gym and many who post on message board have limited amount of knowledge regarding things like Conjugate Training.

Thus, they don't do it, understand it and are incapable about writing about anything have no knowledge of.

Conjugate Training Articles

This plenty of good article on Conjugate Training, written by knowledgeable individual that you can find on line, IF you look.

Kenny Croxdale

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

Sure, just do a high load day for low reps and a light load day for speed or high reps.

ME: One-Arm Push-Up (Weighted up to a rep max or decline to add resistance)
DE: Two-Arm Clapping Pushups (GTG or long rest between small sets, incline to reduce resistance if necessary)

ME: Hand-Stand Push-Up
DE: Max Rep Two-Hand Push-Ups

ME: Weighted Pull-Up
DE: Inclined Row

ME: Pistol
DE: Squat Jump

etc.

Great Example

Nothing more to say.

Kenny Croxdale

 

[the hansenator]

Awesome, thanks for the replies!

Making Assumptions

As the saying goes, "When you ASSUME means that you make an a#@ out of you and me."

Well, I'm glad I asked.

Conjugate Training Articles

This plenty of good article on Conjugate Training, written by knowledgeable individual that you can find on line, IF you look.

Kenny Croxdale

I was able to find articles about Conjugate Training but nothing really about using it with bodyweight exercises so I wasn't sure if the two were incompatible somehow.

 

[Marc]

Of course you can apply it to bodyweight. The guys already gave great reasons why.
Why do you read so little about that? Probably because people only think of jumping jacks and never ending sit ups when they talk about body weight exercises...

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

Awesome, thanks for the replies!



Well, I'm glad I asked.



I was able to find articles about Conjugate Training but nothing really about using it with bodyweight exercises so I wasn't sure if the two were incompatible somehow.

Bro Mo provided you with some good examples.

Kenny Croxdale

 

[Deleted member 5559]

Also, keep in mind that one of the things making Westside's template so successful is the volume of hypertrophy work done after both ME and DE days. Rather than block periodization of:

1. Make more muscle (hypertrophy) for 2 months
2. Make that new muscle stronger (strength) for 3 months
3. Make that new strong muscle faster (power/speed) 1 month
4. deload
5. repeat

They are doing that cycle within a single week.

1. Make muscle strong (ME) + make new muscle (hypertrophy) once per week
2. Make muscle fast (DE) + make more new muscle (hypertrophy) once per week
3. repeat

An alternative in the middle might be

1. Make new muscle (hypertrophy) for a week
2. Make new muscle strong (strength) for a week
3. Make new muscle fast (power/speed) for a week
4. deload
5. repeat

 

[the hansenator]

Great replies, thanks!

I suppose the next question to ask is - Who would benefit from that type of training? Like, is it appropriate for beginners or more of an advanced thing? Is there more effective programmig if you're not at a certain level? Basically, is there a correct time and place to employ such a strategy?

 

[North Coast Miller]

Great replies, thanks!

I suppose the next question to ask is - Who would benefit from that type of training? Like, is it appropriate for beginners or more of an advanced thing? Is there more effective programmig if you're not at a certain level? Basically, is there a correct time and place to employ such a strategy?

If you have some core competency you're good to go. This strategy plays well with the PHA you were looking into, but using a different criteria for exercise selection. In fact the @Bro Mo example is near perfect representation. Plug in the lifts/movements you need for whatever trait you're cultivating on a given day/week.

Daily "undulating" seems to have as good a track record as anything and better than most.

 

[Deleted member 5559]

Basically, is there a correct time and place to employ such a strategy?

I would do the version of monthly periodization until it doesnt work, then weekly until it doesnt work, then daily for as long as it works.

I think one needs to be fairly in tune with their body to know what kind of volume and load progression to use which is easiest using the longer time horizon. Too much undulation would likely cause going too hard or not hard enough.

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

This strategy plays well with the PHA...

'

The Issue With Acronyms

Using acronyms amounts to speaking another language. The only individuals who speak the language know what the term means.

With that in mind, the majority of individual on this site have no idea what PHA is. A few like you, I, Al Caimpa, Mike Prevost and a few other do.

Steve's StrongFirst Acronym List

Steve was kind enough to provide a StrongFirst Acronym List that allows those who "Don't speak the language" to understand and learn. I often refer to it when I am not sure; great tool.

My Recommendation

For those posting who use Acronyms; define their meaning and if possible provide a line that with information on it.

In my post, I usually make an effort to define the acronym or term. Doing so, allow other to understand and learn; providing they are inclined to.

Kenny Croxdale

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

Daily "undulating" seems to have as good a track record as anything and better than most.

Daily Undulating Training

I am a proponent of Non-Linear Periodization Training (Undulating Training).

However, Daily Undulating Training falls doesn't make much sense for the majority of individuals. Constantly change exercise each training session work to some degree for Limit Strength, Hypertrophy, Power, etc Training.

However, a greater training effect occurs in performing the exercise over a number of weeks. The number of weeks, in performing the exercise is dictated by one's "Training Age"; how long it take one to adapt to a movement/exercise.

Novice Lifter take longer to adapt. They are able to make gains in the same exercise over about a 6 -8 week period before making changes.

Advanced Lifter adapt quickly. They need to make changes to their program about every 3 - 4 weeks.

The Genetically Gifted Lifters may find Daily Undulating Training, changing exercise on a daily basis evokes a greater training response.

Larry Scott's, the first Mr Olympia, program often changed exercise every workout. Scott was an exception to the rule.

Kenny Croxdale

 

[the hansenator]

A lot of exciting information presented here, thanks to everyone!

I have some medical history going against me which somewhat limits exercise choices but there are some interesting ideas to experiment with. I like Bro Mo's suggestion of a high load day and a low load day because of its simplicity.

I realize the usual advice is to just pick a proven program and follow it but, between equipment and physical limitations, that never seems to work out for me. But with some general guidelines I can usually put together something productive.

 

[North Coast Miller]

'

The Issue With Acronyms

Using acronyms amounts to speaking another language. The only individuals who speak the language know what the term means.

With that in mind, the majority of individual on this site have no idea what PHA is. A few like you, I, Al Caimpa, Mike Prevost and a few other do.

Steve's StrongFirst Acronym List

Steve was kind enough to provide a StrongFirst Acronym List that allows those who "Don't speak the language" to understand and learn. I often refer to it when I am not sure; great tool.

My Recommendation

For those posting who use Acronyms; define their meaning and if possible provide a line that with information on it.

In my post, I usually make an effort to define the acronym or term. Doing so, allow other to understand and learn; providing they are inclined to.

Kenny Croxdale

In this case I directly refered to a very recent coversation where OP already demonstrated solid understanding.
I agree it helps to spell things out a bit, but honestly if folks aren't going to dig a bit, even phrases like "conjugate training" are going to be meaningless.
Such is the state of modern fitness concepts, even pre-existing phrases and acronyms are sometimes reappropriated (SF use of HIRT for example).

 

[North Coast Miller]

Daily Undulating Training

I am a proponent of Non-Linear Periodization Training (Undulating Training).

However, Daily Undulating Training falls doesn't make much sense for the majority of individuals. Constantly change exercise each training session work to some degree for Limit Strength, Hypertrophy, Power, etc Training.

Normally I'd agree with you for most people. Reading this article from Stronger by Science was nice read.

Periodization: What the Data Say • Stronger by Science

I think for beginners, weekly or biweekly makes sense and the further you get in, and the more dialed in to the mechanics, daily might make more sense. For GPP I am a proponent of daily, study sample of one (me).

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

I think for beginners, weekly or biweekly makes sense and the further you get in, and the more dialed in to the mechanics, daily might make more sense.

Rather Than Guessing...

I am not sure what your talking about.

For GPP I am a proponent of daily, study sample of one (me).

CrossFit WOD, Workout of The Day

The Daily Undulating WOD Training is GPP (General Physical Preparedness) Training.

Kenny Croxdale

 

[North Coast Miller]

Rather Than Guessing...

I am not sure what your talking about.



CrossFit WOD, Workout of The Day

The Daily Undulating WOD Training is GPP (General Physical Preparedness) Training.

Kenny Croxdale

Minus the game plan. Muscle confusion doesn't deliver the same results as daily load/volume changes using similar lifts.

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

Minus the game plan. Muscle confusion doesn't deliver the same results as daily load/volume changes using similar lifts.

That was vague. No sense in continuing this discussion.

Kenny Croxdale