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Conjugate Training

sckiely

Level 5 Valued Member
Why is there not much talk about conjugate training? It was invented in Russia and Pavel touches on Louie Simmons methods here and there... but I thought there would be much more info coming through StrongFirst on Conjugate?

It also seems like it would fall well in line with much of the StrongFirst principles? Or is this something covered in the programming certs?
 
I've got 6% neanderthal DNA so can't even come close to understanding Conjugate Training. I've tried numerous times but it's too complicated. I can't even understand, like, day 3, with chains, let alone the other days. However it does get a mention on here, particularly by the uber nerds with their long posts - they know who they are! Try searching
 
I have never done "the real" conjugate training, but I have implemented its methods(max effort, dynamic effort, repetition method) in my routines.

It is a great way to train, but chains and bands are not for me. I like to keep it simple.
 
While it was born in Russia and mentioned by Pavel from time to time, I have noticed that the vast majority of programs that are in the books are very minimalist, usually only requiring 1-2 moves like Q&D and S&S. When I was competing in power lifting, I gave Conjugate training a run for around a year, to include chains and bands and regressed. I was probably me, but I found I no longer enjoyed training just due to the complication of sorting through DE, ME, Max reps ect... Once I went back to a more standard 5 x 3 sets or whatever, I was able to relax and be happier with my training.
 
ClaudeR said:
Reach out to @Kenny Croxdale he’s very versed in conjugate training!
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Evidetnly, I Am The Guy

or one of them. There are other the are knowledgeable on it: Don, Anna, Watchnerd, Phillipe, Antti...

Thanks for the plug. :)

I have posted a lot of information on Conjugate Training.

The information that i post is based on research and practical experience.

Conjugate Training

I am not sure why Conjugate Training is not discussed.

It is and effective method of training for Strength and Hypertrophy Training.

Olympic Lifter

Olympic Lifters are the Poster Children for Conjugate Training; combining Maximum Strength and Power Training.

The Westside Conjugate Training Protocol comes from The Olympic Lifters.

Asian Olympic Lifter are now incorporating Hypertrophy/Bodybuilding Training into their program, as well.''

7 Ways to Get Jacked With Olympic Lifts

www.t-nation.com

7 Ways to Get Jacked With Olympic Lifts

Olympic lifting isn't meant to pack on tons of muscle. But there is a way to train the O-lifts and build muscle at the same time. Here's how.
www.t-nation.com www.t-nation.com

Out of the modern day lifters, the Asian athletes – from China and North Korea mostly – have the most muscular bodies. We're speaking in terms of body composition and having a lean and muscular look.

Out of all the elite weightlifters, they're the ones using the most assistance exercises: lots of pulls, rows, chin-ups, dips, handstand push-ups, lateral raises, triceps extensions, and even barbell curls.

It's not unusual for them to do 30-45 minutes of bodybuilding work at the end of their lifting session.

Lifters from Russia and Poland also tend to have plenty of muscle and they use a lot of assistance exercises too, mostly various pulls and presses.

The Westside Powerlifting Conjugate Protocol

As you know, The Westside Powerlifting Method incorporated Maximum Strength, Power (aka Speed) and Hypertrophy Training into it program.
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Power Training employs the Squat, Bench Press and Deadlift with load of 48 - 62% of 1 Repetition Max. This training percentage with Traditional Strength Exercise develop Power but not to the same extend as True Power Movement like the Olympic Movements.

Research (Dr John Garhammer) determined that over 4 times as much Power Output (measured in watts) was produce with Olympic Movement compared to moderate load with the Powerlifts.

Dr Michael Zourdos

Zourdos' (Powerlifter) research determined that a Conjugate Training Program that involved Hypertrophy, Power and Maximum Strength Training in the same training cycle increased Maximum Strength.

Dr Brad Schoenfield

Schoenfield's research determined increasing muscle mass was best achieved with the following...

1) Mechanical Tension: Maximum Strength Training

2) Metabolic Stress: The Bodybuilding Pump.

3) Muscle Damage: Pushing to failure or near it. Additional research (Dr Jake Wilson) found that full range movements (like Squat) produce muscle damage that lead to an increase in muscle mass.

While there no direct research that indicates Olympic Movements is effective for Hypertrophy Training, it appears that some type of Power Training may assist.
 
Spartan Agoge said:
It is a great way to train, but chains and bands are not for me. I like to keep it simple.
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Accommodating Resistance Training

Accommodating Resistance Training with Chains and/or Band is simple.

Just attached the Chain and/or Band to the Bar and perform your Squats or Press. It is just that simple.

The Benefit of Accommodation Resistance For Power

Accommodating Resistance greatest benefit is in it ability to Maximize Power Development.

With Traditional Strength Exercises such as Squat, Pressing, Deadlifting, (Ascending Strength Curve Movements), attaching Bands and/or Chain enable a lifter to Produce Force (develop Power) through The Full Range of The Movement when performed with a Power Training Load of 48-62% of a 1 Repetition Max.

Another obstacle when training for an explosive bench press (even at lower percentages of 1 RM) is the deceleration of the bar during the lift, "Research has shown as much as 75% of a movement can be devoted to slowing the bar down." (Flannagan, 2001). Elliot et al. (1989) revealed that during 1-RM bench presses, the bar decelerates for the final 24 % of the range of motion. At 81% of 1-RM, the bar deceleration occurs during the final 52% of the range of motion. The accompanying deceleration phases result in significantly decreased motor unit recruitment, velocity of movement, power production and compromises the effectiveness of the exercise." (Berry et. al., 2001)
Source: Plyometric Bench Press Training for More Strength and Power, Powerlifting USA Maga)ine ' May 2001, Plyometric bench training for 1rm increases

No Chains, No Bands, No Problem

For an individual who doesn't want to use Chains and/or Bands for Power Training, there is a another solution.

Going Ballistic

Ballistic mean that a body or an object must go airborne such as Jump Squats, Trap Bar Jumps, Bench Press Throws, etc.

Doing so ensure that the Muscle Contraction is employed through the Full Range of The Movement. This enable a lifter to maximize Power Develoment.

"The National Strength and Conditioning Association's Basic Guidelines for the Resistance Training of Athletes states that "performing speed repetitions as fast as possible with light weights (e.g., 30-45% of 1RM) in exercises in which the bar is held on to and must be decelerated at the end of the joint's range of motion (e.g., bench press) to protect the joint does not produce power or speed training but rather teaches the body how to decelerate, or slow down. If the load can be released into the air (i.e., the bar can be let go at the end of the range of motion), the negative effects are eliminated.

Two Options

These are the only two options in which Power is Developed with Traditional Strength Training Exercise, listed above.

Summary

Individuals interested with Maximizing Power Development need to utilize one or both of these method.
 
ShawnM said:
I gave Conjugate training a run for around a year, to include chains and bands and regressed. I was probably me,
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Regression With Conjugate with Chains and Bands

Yea, you were doing something right.

I am impressed that you understood it was you and owned up to it.

Part of learning is doing something wrong, figuring it out and then correcting it.

My Experience

I initiated Complex Training with my Deadlift years ago. I have a good Deadlift and it got better.

I added over 50 lb to it in a year and a half.

I rewrote my Complex Training Program adding some more components in. Doing so enable me to decrease my Deadlift 50 lbs. I was back where I start :(

The plan looked good. I just needed to revise and adjust it. In doing so, I my Deadlift went up a little over 70 lbs. I added the 50 lbs back to my Deadlift and increased another 20 lbs.

ShawnM said:
I found I no longer enjoyed training just due to the complication of sorting through DE, ME, Max reps ect...
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Learning Curve

There is a Learning Curve with Conjugate Training and Accommodation Resistance Training. That applies to everything in life that is new.

I understand the frustation of learning something new. The year that I spent going backward and the rewriting and adjusting the Complex Training Deadlift program trying.

The issue at time is that many individual try something once and give up; which assure failure.

Failure

Failure is just part of the Learning Process.

1) Einstein: "Researh is what I am doing, when I don't know what I am doing."

2) Tom Edison

Edision viewed initial faiure as eliminate what doesn't work and moving closer to finding out what does work.

Morpheous Moon Lander

This is a picture of what a million dollars look like on fire.

As per NASA, failure is build into their monatary and time budget; Faiure is part of the Learning Process.

1694774059421.png
 
Conjugate training is nothing more than a periodization model which involves training in a way that attempts to raise multiple qualities simultaneously.

Combining max effort strength training with dynamic effort work and hypertrophy work and a crap ton of GPP work is one way to do so. However, combining some kettlebell A&A type work or hill sprints with more steady state endurance work is technically conjugate training as well.

The Westside Method which was popularized by Louis Simmons is based around conjugate periodization but is not the only way to set up a conjugate training program.

The Westside Method is conjugate training but not all conjugate training would be consistent with the Westside Method if that makes sense.
 
I ran Westside's version of conjugate for awhile. Made great gains on it. I stopped using it because I found it worked best if I had a training partner to really push me. And I just don't like accommodating resistance. I don't like the way it feels. It worked great for me, but I just didn't like it. So I was always dreading training. And training was/is my happy place. So anything that doesn't bring me joy gets cut.

Could I have dropped the chains and bands? Sure. But the group I was working with LOVED them. So I was the odd man out.
 
I had the opportunity to visit Westside on half a dozen occasions over the years and got to take Louie to dinner in Nashville one night.

Louie was obsessed with finding the true secrets to Soviet success in weightlifting and applying it to powerlifting and athletics in general.

I had the opportunity to listen to Boris Sheiko speak at Ashland University a few years ago. This was a very small lecture and only invited guests were asked/allowed to attend. Louie was in attendance and had just spent the prior day with Coach Sheiko. Sheiko said that Louie had the Soviet approach to training down to 90%. High praise!

I learned so much hanging out at Westside and Louie was a fantastic teacher.

If anyone has questions about conjugate I’d be more then happy to answer any questions you may have.
 
I follow a Westside-esque training split. Honestly, these days it's not well thought out enough for me to say with confidence it's the conjugate method anymore, but I try to include enough exercise variety w. dynamic effort, maximal effort, repetition work that it's the closest approximation I can manage on a consistent basis.

You'll find quite a few people here that have cut their chops on Westside/conjugate programming.
 
I have run conjugate for years. Hit me up with any specific questions. All my training is based off of it and it's Russian predecessor.
 
DocMike said:
have run conjugate for years. Hit me up with any specific questions. All my training is based off of it and it's Russian predecessor.
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Didn't you have a long run of Rogozhinkov too? (or is that the russian predecessor?)

I would be interested in a write up of that and how you ran it.
 
Yes, Rogoz is the aforementioned predecessor but also have run straight conjugate.

Found Rogoz to be a bit too dew and far between with too low of an intensity. I had to tweak it a bit to my liking. It was a well thought out program, though
 
DocMike said:
Yes, Rogoz is the aforementioned predecessor but also have run straight conjugate.

Found Rogoz to be a bit too dew and far between with too low of an intensity. I had to tweak it a bit to my liking. It was a well thought out program, though
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As far as I recall, Rogoz shared many similarities to conjugate, no? The heavy day was a bit different though as Rogoz was more concerned with heavy 5’s than Westside’s typical 1rm. But there were lighter repetition days and a similar DE day with “pump” assistance work after every main lift.
 
When I used to visit Westside, it was amazing how different each athletes training looked. The articles that were published by Louie for Powerlifting USA were more of a template and base program.

The athletes there all tweaked the program to meet their needs. When I first went down it was hard to tell if it was dynamic day or Max effort day! Some guys were doing super heavy singles in the box squat with a ton of band tension on one mono-lift, while on another mono-lift they would be doing 5x5 . Louie talked in the magazines about hardly ever deadlifting, but I can’t remember a time I went down when people weren’t doing some variation of the deadlift.

Some guys did box jumps, some guys did a ton of sled dragging, some guys did good mornings , etc.

Louie’s system, like the Soviet system was not one size fits all. He DEFINITELY had a preferred method of doing things , but his guys did what worked best for them.

When he discussed training with me, he had me testing the front squat, sumo deadlift and behind the neck push press. He had me doing 8-10 sets of box squats on speed day and deadlifts on the same day. 10-12 singles .

IMO if you are mixing in ME and DE days and rotating exercises, you’re doing a form of conjugate.
 
Philippe Geoffrion said:
As far as I recall, Rogoz shared many similarities to conjugate, no? The heavy day was a bit different though as Rogoz was more concerned with heavy 5’s than Westside’s typical 1rm. But there were lighter repetition days and a similar DE day with “pump” assistance work after every main lift.
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Yes, Rogoznikov us very similar. When I ran it the heavy day was a true mex effort.
 
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