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Barbell Conventional vs Sumo for Wrestling

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xagunos

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Particularly for the sport of wrestling, what variation is best to spend the most of time? I’m also focusing on Front Squats, Handstand Push-ups, Legless Rope Climbs as my other main exercises.
 
Sorry couldn't resist.

my opinion is to let your body type and mobility decide which style. If you are lucky enough to be able to do both well, then its probably beneficial to switch it up between the 2. Sumo works glutes harder.
 
Sorry couldn't resist.

my opinion is to let your body type and mobility decide which style. If you are lucky enough to be able to do both well, then its probably beneficial to switch it up between the 2. Sumo works glutes harder.
Lol thanks Papa Georgio. I walked right into that one ROFL
 
I would probably do conventional for a while slowly working to power cleans. May be going from conventional to clean pulls/clean deads and then power cleans. While wrestlers need a ton of strength, they really need to be explosive.
 
The moment arm from the load to your hip is longer for a conventional deadlift. This means all the trunk muscles that prevent your back folding in half when you deadlift receive a larger training stimulus in the conventional (hands outside the legs) deadlift. The Sumo (hands inside the legs) style is an abomination that should've been killed with fire long, long ago, but alas it was not, so it's here to stay. It theoretically allows the use of heavier weights by moving the hip closer to the bar to shorten the moment arm on the hip because it artificially shortens the legs which drops the butt and drives the back more vertical. It's very popular amonst powerlifters who often find they can lift heavier loads with this style. However, you're interested not in putting a few more pounds on the bar for a PL total but in making your opponent think "holy crap I can't move this guy....he's too strong", which is likely gonna be caused by conventional style unless your legs are very long and torso very short. Plus, the same pulling setup can be used for Power Cleans later and as was mentioned that's a great lift for bringing your explosive power along with your increased strength.
 
The Sumo (hands inside the legs) style is an abomination that should've been killed with fire long, long ago, but alas it was not, so it's here to stay.

I think that's a bit harsh Bill.

In my limited opinion it's an easier lift to learn, maybe safer (it's easier to keep a neutral spine for me) and feels very natural if you have done kettlebell work prior to barbell (as a lot of folks at SF have).

I have no idea which would transfer better to wrestling though so I'll take your word for it.
 
@krg, I agree. The sumo deadlift is a natural way to try the deadlift for the first time for someone with a background in kettlebells, and some people pull narrow sumo without the super-wide stance, again similar to what one might do when deadlifting or swinging a kettlebell.

IMHO, the transfer of one form or the other isn't the point. A wrestler would deadlift as a general strength exercise and, as such, either should be suitable. An experienced wrestler might feel one helps him/her more than the other, and experienced wrestling coach might have an opinion with a broad base of trainees to draw on.

-S-
 
The Sumo (hands inside the legs) style is an abomination that should've been killed with fire long, long ago, but alas it was not, so it's here to stay

I´m a bit confused now. Doesnt Starting Strength rely the low bar back squat because its the version that allows to lift more weight? If that is the case, wouldnt that apply as well to the deadlift, meaning that the sumo should be chosen if you can lift more with it?
 
@Oscar I didn't want to open that can of worms, but I'm glad you did. Rippetoe also hates the trap bar deadlift which is a perfectly acceptable substitute for a non-powerlifter looking to gain strength. I have an idea as to what may be going on. Rippetoe does not have experience with either the sumo or the trap bar, which means he cannot teach either lift. If he can't teach a lift, then he cannot make it part of his certification. If he cannot make it part of his certification, then he cannot make money. Therefore, the sumo and trap bar deadlifts are bad.

I agree with @krg and @Steve Freides . I see no reason why the sumo deadlift would be an "abomination." Didn't Pavel once recommend that a lifter should start a deadlift cycle using the version of the lift which is weaker, then move to the stronger version when the intensity increases?

One other point: The starting position of the conventional deadlift is not the same as the starting position for a clean or power clean. They share similarities, but they are not the same.
 
For me its simple. At no point in time during either athletics or regular life am I going to spread my legs out 4-5 feet or even more to try and lift something or as far as wrestling, lift a competitor. For most of us conventional is great for this, same as the Trap Bar.If you compete in powerlifting then I can see using Sumo.

The original question was which is better for wrestling. Spreading your feet a mile wide in a wrestling match will give you plenty of lift................if you can stuff the shot and you don't get single legged.

Conventional provides, IMHO, more carry over to athletics and builds a great platform to move to cleans and power cleans, both that are much better for nearly all sports.
 
For athletics, I can believe that conventional has more carry over to jumping and stuff, but for day to day strength, I've never picked something off the floor with my arms outside my legs. I'm not talking about feet-touching-plates sumo, but the "squat stance sumo"/"narrow sumo" that Ed Coan used and that Marty Gallagher advocates for (for as much clout as Mark Rippetoe has, I think Marty has some pretty impressive credentials himself).

Get strong in both. Alternate cycles. Build strong legs and strong hips. Narrow sumo has a foot spacing similar to what I see wrestlers use (and most sports' ready position for that matter). Conventional, although its not a stance used often in sports or daily tasks, creates athletic training adaptations to posterior chain, and you can also work on the explosive lifts as suggested by others.
 
Doesnt Starting Strength rely the low bar back squat because its the version that allows to lift more weight? If that is the case, wouldnt that apply as well to the deadlift, meaning that the sumo should be chosen if you can lift more with it?

Starting Strength uses the low bar squat and the conventional deadlift because they meet their criteria for exercise selection as described in this recent article. "We design the barbell exercises to 1.) use as much muscle mass as possible, over the 2.) longest effective range of motion, so that 3.) the lifter can use the heaviest weight possible, and therefore 4.) get the best possible strength improvement." The conventional deadlift uses a longer effective range of motion.

@Oscar I didn't want to open that can of worms, but I'm glad you did. Rippetoe also hates the trap bar deadlift which is a perfectly acceptable substitute for a non-powerlifter looking to gain strength. I have an idea as to what may be going on. Rippetoe does not have experience with either the sumo or the trap bar, which means he cannot teach either lift. If he can't teach a lift, then he cannot make it part of his certification. If he cannot make it part of his certification, then he cannot make money. Therefore, the sumo and trap bar deadlifts are bad.

That's a lot of logic twisting there, @MikeTheBear... I suppose you could say the same thing about why StrongFirst doesn't teach Zumba.
 
Rippetoe does not have experience with either the sumo or the trap bar, which means he cannot teach either lift. If he can't teach a lift, then he cannot make it part of his certification. If he cannot make it part of his certification, then he cannot make money. Therefore, the sumo and trap bar deadlifts are bad.
That's a lot of logic twisting there, @MikeTheBear... I suppose you could say the same thing about why StrongFirst doesn't teach Zumba.
Let's all play nice, please.

-S-
 
@Steve Freides - You don’t nessesarily need Olympic lifts for athletics, however, with speed/power sports they they play a much bigger role than absolute strength. Plenty of strong men with a 500+ bench have washed out from say the NFL than guys that were explosive and more athletic. A huge deadlift is awesome!!! But being able to move heavy weights with speed and power translate better to athletics in my opinion. Even strong men/ women train this way to cover all areas of their game.
 
@ShawnM, this is where appropriate standards can be helpful. I doubt that any of the explosive athletes have sub-par deadlifts and squats. Except for super heavyweights, I think most high-level Olympic athletes would perform a double bodyweight deadlift with no deadlift training.

-S-
 
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