Barbell Cool (I think) deadlift story.

[Bonkin]

The COC#2.5 is a challenge for sure. I have been stuck there for a long time. The COC#3 has been elusive for me, I am close on the right, not so close on the left. Keep at it heavy grippers have huge carryover to life, and lifting.

I can only imagine how hard the #3 is. I'm still on the #1 and will definitely keep at it - I found it to be very helpful when learning to deadlift (my grip was my biggest limitation) and only recently started using them again.

 

[Chicago]

Geoff and Bonkin;

Thank you both for your comments! The best format for farmer´s walks I´ve done so far is heavy, but different weights for each hands. So for example, I will walk 10 m with one 56 kg bell in one hand and one 48 in the other. Once I´m done with the 10 m, I put the bells down and change hands and walk back. I also sometimes like to make the difference between bells even more pronounced so perhaps a 56 kg bell in one hand and a 32kg or 24kg or even 16kg in the other. I genuinely don´t know why it delivers the way it does, but it does. I try to do 4 walks after each session with the proper rest of course.

Honestly, I find grip training to be a universe of its own. In my case, I´ve progressed fast, from barely being able to close the Coc 1 to easily closing the Coc 2 and using the Coc1 for warmups. BUT I do think it differs from kb training in that my peak grip strength temporarily disappears a lot easier. In other words, if I get too little sleep or I get a cold I have to struggle with the Coc 2 whereas a I close it with no problem if I´m healthy and have good sleep. In contrast, since I conquered pressing the 40 kg kettlebell a few years ago, I have no problem pressing it unless I´m injured (which has only happened once so far). Also, once one hits wall the in grip training, it appears to be a heck of a lot harder to figure out how to overcome it. I was struggling with the Coc2 for well over two months, and then I decided to try farmer´s walks and those rubber bands from Iron mind (feels very awkward to bring up rubber bands in this context) and I closed it less than a week later. I know lots of people who closed the Coc2 using other assistance exercises and some who used no assistance exercises at all. It thus seems to me as if grip training can become very state of the art and individualistic once one gets to a point where one struggles with closing a particular Coc. It doesnt mean that it´s not worth doing grip training, the opposite is obviously the case, but I have benefited from accepting that grip training is a different discipline of strength training from DLs, Kbs etc. However, consistency does seem to be key and I personally can´t imagine a training program of any kind that doesn´t actively incorporate grip training.

 

[JeffC]

@Chicago Uneven weighted carries are one of my favourite versions. It requires a lot of torso and hip stabilization.

I use many grip implements to target the many aspects of hand, and lower arm function. Grip, and odd object training is well worth my investment, and has paid dividends for work and play.

 

[offwidth]

Honestly, I find grip training to be a universe of its own.

It is indeed. And from what I have seen on this forum any advice on grip training that comes from @Geoff Chafe is solid gold and should be listened to.
For myself... although I dabble in grippers and carries from time to time, I mostly tend to address my specific grip requirements from various 'hangs'

 

[mrdave100]

Maybe for some. I stopped deadlifting, did nothing but S&S for 6 months and my deadlift dropped. Results may vary.

How bad was the drop off?

At least 30lbs.

Wesker11, that's nothing. You could regain and smoke that 30 lbs on the 2nd week of the 5x5x5 program.

 

[Tommy Blom]

@Chicago @Geoff Chafe
One of the best things I've found for the COC is Grease The Groove.
Always bring a COC that you can close 5 times and over the day close it 3 reps, or a COC that you can close 3 times and close it 1 time, with a minimum of 15 min rest between the sets. It does work wonders and is easily done almost everywhere.

 

[JeffC]

@Tommy Blom GTG works great for grippers, but once you are approaching the #3 you need a more dedicated grip program. I do a dedicated gripper program a few hours before or after regular training, paired with squats, and part or a grip based finisher, workout, circuit, or medley.

Recovery strategies, and pre hab for the hands and lower arms is a priority for a solid intermediate grip enthusiast also.

 

[Chicago]

Given that I haven´t actually managed to close the Coc 2.5, I don´t want to seem too certain about this, but so far it DOES seem that one can in fact do GTG with grippers and do farmer´s walks until closing the 2.5. I always carry a Coc 1, 1.5, 2 and 2.5 in my bag and use it throughout the day as Tommy suggested.

However, given that the Coc3 is a different animal, I think Geoff is spot on. In my experience it´s is a bit like the pressing the 40 kg bell vs the Beast. I went from pressing 24 kg bell to the 40 kg bell using the ladder format in less than 3 months of training. I naively thought that I could press the Beast in a few months time, but I stood no chance. When one attempts to close the Coc3 or press the Beast, it´s a different game all together and new rules apply. For me, I will stick to farmer´s walks and the grippers and if I can close the Coc2.5 I will proceed to construct a more advanced grip-program.

 

[JeffC]

@Chicago You have support grip covered with Farmers, and crush grip covered with grippers. If you add a pinch grip lift you have most of your grip functions covered. Two hand plate pinch is a core grip exercise. 3" Hub Pinch is a grant assistance exercise for getting to that next gripper.

 

[Kyle Schuant]

I got started with kb training through martial arts over a decade ago [...] I pulled 150 kg (330 lbs) as a PR on my first ever serious DL session [...]

This reinforces what Matt wrote and most of us know already; anyone who dismisses the kettlebell as a strength builder simply doesnt know what he/she is talking about.

My experience is that, using only barbells, healthy guys under 50yo can deadlift 150kg in 3-6 months.

Using barbells, you did it in 10+ years. Yes, you may have been able to pull 150 before this time had you tried - but not after 3-6 months of kettlebells.

In other words, everything works if you put enough time and effort into it, the question is what's optimal. Kettlebells are not optimal for the development of strength, barbells are.

Kettlebells offer other benefits, however. With swings etc they also develop cardiovascular fitness - but not as much as running would. With snatches and goblet squats they develop joint mobility - but not as much as doing yoga would.

So if you want strength, use barbells.
If you want endurance, run.
If you want mobility, do yoga.
If you want a bit of each, use kettlebells.

As well, kettlebells are convenient. They're small and most of us can get away with just having 3 of them of about 4kg apart - one for presses, one for squats, one for swings or deadlifts, and of course you can progress through them over time, but you'd still rarely have to buy a new one more often than annually, and would end up with at most 8 or so. And because of their size you can store them easily and get them out to use in your loungeroom, on your porch, or take them to a park.

You won't get as strong, fit and mobile with kettlebells as you would with barbells, running or yoga - but it'll be more than enough for good health. Nobody needs to squat 200kg for their health. If you can do a good goblet squat with 20kg or so and keep that up into your 70s, you'll never need a walking frame.

Kettlebells are good. But let's be realistic - if you want to be strong, barbells are much quicker.

 

[mbasic]

My experience is that, using only barbells, healthy guys under 50yo can deadlift 150kg in 3-6 months.
. . .
You won't get as strong, fit and mobile with kettlebells as you would with barbells, running or yoga - but it'll be more than enough for good health. Nobody needs to squat 200kg for their health. If you can do a good goblet squat with 20kg or so and keep that up into your 70s, you'll never need a walking frame.

Kettlebells are good. But let's be realistic - if you want to be strong, barbells are much quicker.

+1, good post Kyle