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Kettlebell Current thoughts on exercise theory

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My wife, a school teacher who doesn't get to walk...

I suspect she get more exercise than she or you realize in the form of...

N.E.A.T. (No-Exercise Activity Thermogenesis

Essentially, constant movement through out the day/during the week, appears to elicit a greater health effect than going to the gym during the week.

Kenny Croxdale
 
What could one say the goblet squat does that the barbell squat doesn't do

Good question.

What we do know is in the changes in Grip Width or Incline Position in an Upper Body Exercise, Foot Width Stand in a Lower Body Exercise, High Bar Bell or Low Barbell Squat, etc. turn the Exercise into a completely different movement.

Research

EMG Research would provide one of the most effective method in determining the differences between a Goblet Squat vs a Barbell Squat.

A more common method that will provide some empirical data is...

The Vince Gironda Method

1) Take some time off from a movement, like the Goblet Squat or Barbell Squat.

2) After a few weeks of detraining perform only the Exercise in question.

3) Preform 10 Sets of the Exercise in question.

4) Each Set needs to be perform for Moderate High Repetitions.

4) Push all of the 10 Set to failure.

5) Once that is accomplished, go home.

6) In 24 to 48 hours, the DOMS (Delayed Onset of Muscle Soreness) will provide you with some great feed back on the muscle engaged in the movement.

It Works

In working with a woman years ago, she wanted to work her glute more. She whined that the Lunges that I had her doing weren't working her glutes; she didn't feel it. My reply, "Talk to me about in your next training session in two days".

Two days later she showed up with happily showed up with a sore a#@ wanting to do more Lunges.

Kenny Croxdale
 
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Does anyone disagree that running builds and maintains a reasonable level of strength, mainly in the legs of course but also in the core and throughout the entire body to some extant; walking perhaps less so, but it still does build and maintain physical strength over and above mere cardio?
I agree. I’m probably the only one. But hey, I’m an endurance athlete. The endurance demands put a cap on that strength pretty quickly. But it has always been me experience that running is total body exercise that demands and builds overall strength.
 
Okay but would you recommend that someone stop walking for exercise if they are lifting heavy? I am going to guess that you would not recommend this, and if I'm right it would mean that you actually agree with me.
I do not recommend walking for exercise. I recommend walking as a normal and natural activity. If you lift heavy, don't walk for exercise. Just walk.

In my case (N=1), walking often turns to be cardio, because I usually walk for movement from point A to point B. It is then quite fast. I am doing a steady cardio workout without ever thinking I am.
I am convinced (=opinion) that this is a big factor why I can go for a run whenever I want. That combined with strength training and swings/snatches.

Of course, for someone really overweighted, or completely out of shape, or recovering from an injury, it is a different story.
 
I suspect she get more exercise than she or you realize in the form of...

N.E.A.T. (No-Exercise Activity Thermogenesis

Essentially, constant movement through out the day/during the week, appears to elicit a greater health effect than going to the gym during the week.

Kenny Croxdale
She also lifts kettlebells a few days a week.

-S-
 
I do not recommend walking for exercise. I recommend walking as a normal and natural activity. If you lift heavy, don't walk for exercise. Just walk.

In my case (N=1), walking often turns to be cardio, because I usually walk for movement from point A to point B. It is then quite fast. I am doing a steady cardio workout without ever thinking I am.
I am convinced (=opinion) that this is a big factor why I can go for a run whenever I want. That combined with strength training and swings/snatches.

Of course, for someone really overweighted, or completely out of shape, or recovering from an injury, it is a different story.
@jef , my walk with the intention of being as relaxed as possible, nothing fast and not even what I'd call moderate. I do it as a restorative activity that also seems to check the cardio box according to some people, so I'm happy with both aspects of it. And I weigh 66-68 kg so it's not like I'm hauling around a lot of mass. :)

-S-
 
@Steve Freides
And as a practice, walking as relaxed as possible is also something I think worthy. :)
Thank you, @jef . My personal inclinations are to walk as relaxedly as possible, slowly, and to run as quickly as possible. I run easily sometimes but running easily has never come easily to me. :) In an earlier life, whenever I would return to running after a layoff, I would always start by running 1/2 mile at a time, briskly. As I built up volume doing that, usually twice a day, I'd gradually transition to once a day and longer distances.

-S-
 
Endurance Running impedes and decreases strength and muscle mass in the legs.

I'm a crap endurance runner and whilst many people who run badly a lot shouldn't, I feel it necessary sometimes to defend endurance athletes on their apparent lack of strength. Limited muscle mass, sure but strength, nope.
Try running a 400m in 53 seconds after running 9600 m already.
That was Mo Farah's last lap winning gold in the London Olympics 2012.
Is that weak? A lot of very strong, athletic sports players, pro or amateur, could not do that once as a sprint. Unfair perhaps to pick an Olympic athlete, granted but it is equally unfair to say endurance athletes are weak. Some are but so are some strength athletes when compared to stronger strength athletes.
Is speed endurance a factor when considering 'strength'? I'd say it is. You could call it power endurance and power endurance is what many here train for, both generally and specifically.
You don't need extra muscle mass to be strong in your chosen sport or activity and in endurance events it is more a hindrance if seeking a competitive edge. As is excess chub.
He also runs the 100 in 11 seconds in training. He's an endurance athlete.
 
I don't think anyone in this thread is putting down walking. It's just that somehow there's been born a notion that walking increases strength as a stand-alone training modality, which it obviously does not do, apart from the most extreme cases. So when some say that walking does nothing it's walking, per se, does nothing for strength. It is, however, good for our aerobic system and good for recovery.
Would that what I think you're calling "the most extreme cases" were actually uncommon! I walk a mile each way, most days, to buy whatever groceries we need, go to the bank and the dry cleaner's along the way, etc. I don't think many of my neighbors have the strength to do that. Granted we're talking about a low level of strength, but still ...

Once in a while, I walk for an hour to get somewhere - that's about my maximum, an hour each way.

Doing what I do should _not_ be unusual or exception in any way, but it is - that's one point.

And to bring the conversation full circle, real strength training definitely makes all the walking I do easier. In part, the reason it's not difficult for me is because I also pick up heavy things on a regular basis. So the way I would advise people who want to be able to comfortably walk for some distance on a regular basis to condition themselves to do so wouldn't just be walking, it would be strength training plus walking. I've mentioned many times before here that, even when I'm doing zero cardio except easy walking, I notice how out of breath people are when we walk up a hill - they're either out of breath or they're far behind me when I reach the top. And this difference is something I absolutely attribute to strength training, the kind where I know I can, e.g., deadlift twice my bodyweight with no warmup on any day. It makes _everything_ easier.

-S-
 
I realize it's a sample size of one but I know a lady whose only form of exercise is walking. She also commented how heavy a gallon jug of milk is and is unable to do a pushup. She's really good at walking but it doesn't seem to have maintained her upper body strength.

But I think walking is great for other reasons. I just feel better when I walk more. Bipedal locomotion is one of the greatest gifts we have and is one of the most taken for granted.
 
I do not recommend walking for exercise. I recommend walking as a normal and natural activity. If you lift heavy, don't walk for exercise. Just walk.

In my case (N=1), walking often turns to be cardio, because I usually walk for movement from point A to point B. It is then quite fast. I am doing a steady cardio workout without ever thinking I am.
I am convinced (=opinion) that this is a big factor why I can go for a run whenever I want. That combined with strength training and swings/snatches.

Of course, for someone really overweighted, or completely out of shape, or recovering from an injury, it is a different story.
I think of judo and weights as normal activities too. I think we're talking semantics here. In any case, walking as a normal activity would mean not programming in long walks. I program in long walks where I feel the effects both on cardio and on my musculature. If I were already walking around for an hour or so a day then I wouldn't need to program walking into my exercise schedule, but since I don't get a lot of walking as a normal daily activity, I need to program walking into my schedule.

I can see that some people here think it's just a normal movement that we all do, but if we do it for longer than normal at a time or we load heavy stuff on our back, or we turn it into explosiveness by running, it becomes something that leads to building strength and endurance.
 
I'm a crap endurance runner and whilst many people who run badly a lot shouldn't, I feel it necessary sometimes to defend endurance athletes on their apparent lack of strength. Limited muscle mass, sure but strength, nope.
Try running a 400m in 53 seconds after running 9600 m already.
That was Mo Farah's last lap winning gold in the London Olympics 2012.
Is that weak? A lot of very strong, athletic sports players, pro or amateur, could not do that once as a sprint. Unfair perhaps to pick an Olympic athlete, granted but it is equally unfair to say endurance athletes are weak. Some are but so are some strength athletes when compared to stronger strength athletes.
Is speed endurance a factor when considering 'strength'? I'd say it is. You could call it power endurance and power endurance is what many here train for, both generally and specifically.
You don't need extra muscle mass to be strong in your chosen sport or activity and in endurance events it is more a hindrance if seeking a competitive edge. As is excess chub.
He also runs the 100 in 11 seconds in training. He's an endurance athlete.
Also, I think it depends on how much running we're doing. If we're only running for a half hour or so at a time, I can't see how this would atrophy anything at all - it's just explosiveness and endurance training for the entire body. People who run long distances, I can see how thin they get, so the atrophy is obvious.
 
I realize it's a sample size of one but I know a lady whose only form of exercise is walking. She also commented how heavy a gallon jug of milk is and is unable to do a pushup. She's really good at walking but it doesn't seem to have maintained her upper body strength.

But I think walking is great for other reasons. I just feel better when I walk more. Bipedal locomotion is one of the greatest gifts we have and is one of the most taken for granted.
I agree. We are 1/2 legs and 1/3 arms. We need to grasp, push and lift heavy things with our arms just as we need to push off the ground with our legs to maintain our strength. I just think that for North Americans who don't do the most natural of movements, walking, for more than 5 minutes straight a day in many cases as they sit sit and sit everywhere at all times, we need to program in walking somehow or other, whether it's as Steve does as part of his shopping, or as I do as a scheduled exercise that gets my heart rate up and my muscles tingling by the end of it. But I totally agree that it can only take you so far.

It's a joke compared with the kind of cardio exertion activated by kettlebell swings or even running, and while I am 100% convinced that it maintains leg strength and some strength through the back chain, it doesn't do a heck of a lot for the abdomen, the chest nor the arms. I'd say as a minimum one ought to do pushups to complement walking if one were not inclined to go further with weight training.

So where does this lead me? For one I think lunges are kind of a waste of time if you already walk, and aren't as good an exercise (although they can add nuanced strength), and I don't think doing light squats are particularly necessary if you walk for long periods as exercise either.
 
I am 100% convinced that it maintains leg strength and some strength through the back chain, it doesn't do a heck of a lot for the abdomen, the chest nor the arms. I'd say as a minimum one ought to do pushups to complement walking if one were not inclined to go further with weight training.

So where does this lead me? For one I think lunges are kind of a waste of time if you already walk, and aren't as good an exercise (although they can add nuanced strength), and I don't think doing light squats are particularly necessary if you walk for long periods as exercise either.

It might depend on how you define strength. I don't think walking alone will improve your squat or deadlift very much, or your vertical jump. And lunges, besides going through a fuller range of motion, seem like they require more strength to me and make my muscles more tired, especially if you add weight. Unless you're rucking up some pretty steep hills.
 
Some definitions of strength from a quick google search of strength as it results to physical training:

"Strength is the maximal force you can apply against a load."
"Muscular strength is the ability of a muscle or muscle group to exert maximal force against resistance."
"Strength is the maximal force that a muscle can exert as it contracts."
"Muscular strength is defined as the ability of a muscle group to develop maximal contractile force against a resistance in a single contraction."
"Muscular strength is the amount of force a muscle can produce."
"Muscular strength is the amount of force a muscle can produce in a single effort."

Why are we re-defining the word, and saying that walking = strength? Do we even know what "StrongFirst" even means?
 
Some definitions of strength from a quick google search of strength as it results to physical training:

"Strength is the maximal force you can apply against a load."
"Muscular strength is the ability of a muscle or muscle group to exert maximal force against resistance."
"Strength is the maximal force that a muscle can exert as it contracts."
"Muscular strength is defined as the ability of a muscle group to develop maximal contractile force against a resistance in a single contraction."
"Muscular strength is the amount of force a muscle can produce."
"Muscular strength is the amount of force a muscle can produce in a single effort."

Why are we re-defining the word, and saying that walking = strength? Do we even know what "StrongFirst" even means?
Walking fits this definition - it is the maximal force exerted vis a vis my bodyweight in the walking movement. Yes, this force is limited by the movement itself and by my bodyweight, but it is indeed the maximal amount called for in the action.

Running is certainly maximal force exerted propelling your body forward bipedally.

I think what y'all are getting your attention focussed on (if I'm right?) is that walking is a relatively easy and natural exercise so it doesn't seem to make us stand out from the crowd. However, if we do it for longer, with heavy weights on our back, or if we spring with each step (running), it does indeed push our limits and force adaptations.

For instance, I went on a long walk the past two days and my calf muscles are tingling quite a lot! 218lbs on one calf muscle at a time alternating for a few hours both days definitely challenged my strength-endurance for that muscle group!
 
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It might depend on how you define strength. I don't think walking alone will improve your squat or deadlift very much, or your vertical jump. And lunges, besides going through a fuller range of motion, seem like they require more strength to me and make my muscles more tired, especially if you add weight. Unless you're rucking up some pretty steep hills.
But how many lunges is anyone doing at a time? What is better - 20 lunges or 75 minutes of half-lunges (walking)? Also, who is really stronger, practically speaking? You might be able to do 20 consecutive lunges, but can you walk uphill for an hour without having to take a rest?
 
But how many lunges is anyone doing at a time? What is better - 20 lunges or 75 minutes of half-lunges (walking)? Also, who is really stronger, practically speaking? You might be able to do 20 consecutive lunges, but can you walk uphill for an hour without having to take a rest?
I would think that 20 lunges will better build strength while walking for 75 minutes will better build endurance. As to what's more practical, it depends on the task.

Anyway, I haven't noticed any correlation to how much I walk and changes in leg strength. But I do feel better when I walk more and I've learned to appreciate being able to walk without pain.
 
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