Dan John's "Big Three"

banzaiengr

Quadruple-Digit Post Count
I have to disagree with this. If you're doing contact drills (maybe even with a ruck on your back) you'll be squatting a heckuva lot. Including breaking contact out of a situation.
I was wondering how a Marine got off the ground to carry something.
 

MikeTheBear

Quadruple-Digit Post Count
@banzaiengr No mention of the quadrants in this little snippet of an article.

@23rdwave I think this is kind of both an assessment and a program. As an assessment, I doubt that Dan would prevent his high school athletes from participating in a sport until they meet the standards outlined, but I have no doubt he would make sure they met the standard ASAP.

Dan is very much into minimalist programs. And he is not so dogmatic that he would prevent his athletes from doing squats, pull ups, and bench presses provided they had good form in these lifts. But I also see Dan recommending this "program" of deadlifts, presses, and carries to an athlete who seems "confused" about what to do and is making little to no progress in gaining strength.
 

Marius

Double-Digit Post Count
I have to disagree with this. If you're doing contact drills (maybe even with a ruck on your back) you'll be squatting a heckuva lot. Including breaking contact out of a situation.
I do not disagree with you on this on. But I rather have a solider deadlift and carry, over back squat. During care under fire soliders often have to pick up the wounded, and carry them for distance.

People have different ways to reach the goal... Whatever floats your goat.
 
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tangozero

Double-Digit Post Count
I do not disagree with you on this on. But I rather have a solider deadlift and carry, over back squat. During care under fire soliders often have to pick up the wounded, and carry them for distance.

People have different ways to reach the goal... Whatever floats your goat.
I like 'em both and I do them both. But if you're going to use the soldier example, well you're going to be spending way more time going down on one knee and getting back up (usually with a pack on) and crouching over the course of your career than you will be slinging injured bodies on your back a la Hollywood. But I agree, as long as you choose one, the other, (or both) and get strong then you'll be good to go...whether you're carrying an injured compadre and running for the choppa or doing battle drills.
 

Deadlift425

My Third Post
Balance all lifts both push and pull. For the extra 5-10 minutes it takes, this shouldn't be an issue. No one has to squat super heavy to get gains, they just have to do it frequently and efficiently. Turn your weaknesses onto strengths by training them daily ; maintain strengths by putting less emphasis on them by week. My hips really get opened up combining front squats and romanian deads(especially banded).
 

JonS

More than 500 posts
I would reconsider the original context, which had nothing to do with a Soldier's needs. The Big Three was, really, a hypothetical "do this" from a very experienced and respected trainer to a predominately bodybuilding crowd at T-Nation.

I think we lost focus a bit when we focused on a Soldier's needs. Speciality folks like Medical and Lawyers notwithstanding, the short answer is that a fighting person will need all of it. Concur w/ @tangozero on that. The relative values of each lift however, is debatable.

But back to the OP, regarding 3 lifts. One could do worse than those 3 :)
 

masa

More than 2500 posts
Okay, there has been too little talk, how to do the big three in reality. I’ll explain my vision and I hope some of you will do the same. I would do this three times a week. I would do the one hand kettle bell press first, then deadlift and loaded carries last.


Press


For the press I’d stick only with ladders:

Dan John’s 2,3,5 for three to five rungs or more hypertrophy oriented 2,3,5,10 version.

Another version would be Pavel’s ROP ladders up to 5X1,2,3,4,5.


Deadlift


For the deadlift I’d stick with PTTP bear protocol for example one set 5X100 kg, one set 5X90 kg and 5X80 kg as many sets as possible with a good form.


Then there’s Dan John’s ladders 1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3.


Last but not least Strength musings 3/1/5 High-Frequency Deadlift Program:

Monday work up to 3X3 sets across

Wednesday 5X1 sets across

Friday up to 1X5


Loaded carry


From breakingmuscle.com - Strongman Series - Chet Morjaria: The Farmer’s Walk

Monday light weight and long distance (40-60m)

Wednesday mid weight and mid distance (20-30m)

Friday heavy weight and short distance (10-15m)


So the week would look like:

Monday: press 3X1,2,3 - deadlift 3x3 - farmer’s walk 40-60m

Wednesday: press 4X1,2,3 - deadlift 5X1 - farmer’s walk 20-30m

Friday: press 5X1,2,3 - deadlift 1X5 - farmer’s walk 10-15m
 

banzaiengr

Quadruple-Digit Post Count
I would do pretty much the same:

Monday

DL: 3 x 5 75% 1RM

Clean & Press: Heavy 5 x 1,2,3

Farmer Carries: 3 x 15 to 20 sec.

Wed.

DL: 3 x 3 75 - 85% 1RM

C&P: Light 5 x 2,3,5

Farmer Carries: 3 x 15 to 20 sec.

Fri.

DL: 5 x 1 75-90% 1RM

C&P: Light5 x 2,3,5

No carries

Just a quick put together deal with limited thought put behind it.
 

masa

More than 2500 posts
@banzaiengr: That's a solid program too. Last time I did loaded carries was waiter's walk twice a week by Steve Baccari's PM. There was this cool down after swings for three minutes changing hands every 30 seconds.
 

banzaiengr

Quadruple-Digit Post Count
@banzaiengr: That's a solid program too. Last time I did loaded carries was waiter's walk twice a week by Steve Baccari's PM. There was this cool down after swings for three minutes changing hands every 30 seconds.
Thanks, I would most likely, depending on the individual add some different type carries to mix it up, sand bags, teammates, boulders, etc. One I really like was told to me by someone named Al, turkish get up to standing position, waiters carry to turn around spot, snatch, carry back to beginning spot, downward turkish get up, other hand, same same. These will take it out of you quickly and would have to be added when one is feeling rather spry. And then of course there could always be stadium carries. : ]
 

Steve Freides

Forum Administrator
Staff member
Senior Certified Instructor
Pretty sure all of the experts agree that you should do more pulling than pushing.
I was watching an Ed Coan video on how to deadlift where he talked about the DL starting as a push then switching to a pull. It's how I pull, not that I have even half Ed's DL.

-S-
 

MattM

SFG1
Certified Instructor
I was watching an Ed Coan video on how to deadlift where he talked about the DL starting as a push then switching to a pull. It's how I pull, not that I have even half Ed's DL.

-S-
This is true and could be debated forever. I was thinking more along the lines of upper body, rows vs bench, pullups vs dips, etc
 

MikeTheBear

Quadruple-Digit Post Count
I may actually do this "program" for reasons too numerous to list here.

I would run Wendler's 5/3/1 for the press and DL. I would add pull ups on the press day. Each lift would have its own day and the third day would be the conditioning/carry day.
 

Kyle Schuant

Double-Digit Post Count
If we're talking about balance... thinking of the 5 moves - push, pull, hip hinge, squat and loaded carry - look at your programme over a week or two, and see how much work you're doing in each. Let's say in work sets (I count each time you pick up and put down to be the start and end of a "set" of carries).

If you're doing 15 work sets of presses a week and 5 of squats, well maybe that points to something you need to address. And if the sets are the same but you feel an area is a weakness, well maybe you need to do more sets there.
 
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