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Kettlebell Deadlifts VS Squat: Which best supplements KB training?

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Steve Freides said:
@Glen, everyone needs to have a good squat movement pattern but not everyone needs to load it. My general recommendation strength without a lot of muscle gain is the Deadlift combined with a press. Squat well, squat regularly, but it can be a warmup or variety lift.

-S-
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It's also true that the TGU involves a squat up and down.
 
Mark Kidd said:
Do you mean a lunge? I missing where the squat is in the getup.
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It's like a mix between a squat and a lunge. It isn't a proper squat, but there was a knowledgeable fellow on these forums a few months ago who assured me that my training programme satisfied the "squat" requirement, and I don't have squats in it (well... okay, the warmup goblet ones if they count, hmmm...)
 
Mark Kidd said:
Do you mean a lunge? I missing where the squat is in the getup.
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That maybe because we didn't took the time to define Squat.The OSP: The Next Level definition is
Original Strength Performance: The Next Level; Kindle location 659 said:
Squat: Knee dominant, anterior emphasis, flexion pattern at ankles, knees and hips; level changing
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If we choose to use that definition than the TGU-tall sit to windmill is a squat, as well as the lunge to standing.

Kozushi said:
(well... okay, the warmup goblet ones if they count, hmmm...)
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Why wouldn't they count?
 
Shahaf Levin said:
That maybe because we didn't took the time to define Squat.The OSP: The Next Level definition is

If we choose to use that definition than the TGU-tall sit to windmill is a squat, as well as the lunge to standing.


Why wouldn't they count?
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Think there is a difference between lunging and squatting in one is a bilateral movement and the other unilateral - out of the movement patterns I mentioned earlier I think you can drop a squat if you have a hinge and a lunge but not the other way around as the unilateral work has some unique benefits - just my opinion though
 
Kozushi said:
It's like a mix between a squat and a lunge. It isn't a proper squat, but there was a knowledgeable fellow on these forums a few months ago who assured me that my training programme satisfied the "squat" requirement, and I don't have squats in it (well... okay, the warmup goblet ones if they count, hmmm...)
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Interesting. Thanks
 
Shahaf Levin said:
That maybe because we didn't took the time to define Squat.The OSP: The Next Level definition is
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Maybe I am old school (and possibly out of date) but a squat is a squat. A lunge is a lunge. A DL is a DL. Sure they have overlap but they are distinct movements
 
Mark Kidd said:
Maybe I am old school (and possibly out of date) but a squat is a squat. A lunge is a lunge. A DL is a DL. Sure they have overlap but they are distinct movements
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Maybe I am just pedantic, but one cannot use the words he defines in the definition.

OSP:NL basic human movements definition (based on Dan John's basic human movements) aim for just that. Defining what the movements are. If someone does not agree with these definitions that's fine, but than I would ask him for an alternative definition and classification of a movement system. If one objects to the concept of defining and classifying movement it another matter.

For example I give the full movement system and definition from Original Strength Performance: The Next Level

Anderson Tim; Morton Chip; Shropshire Mark. Original Strength Performance: The Next Level (Kindle Locations 657-665). OS Press. Kindle Edition. said:
In OS Performance, we expand the list of Major Human Movements to include Six Purposeful Patterns; movements that are loadable and trainable. These movements are important to our development and are a part of our daily lives; they may be progressed and regressed. Restoring, strengthening, and sustaining these basic
movements is foundational to enhancing athletic performance and enriching our daily lives:
Hinge: Hip dominant, posterior emphasis, extension pattern; locomotion, jumping
Squat: Knee dominant, anterior emphasis, flexion pattern at ankles, knees, and hips; level changing
Pull: Posterior emphasis, shoulder extension, and elbow flexion pattern; drawing near
Push: Anterior emphasis, extension pattern; adding distance, creating space
Gait: Contralateral pattern with extension, flexion, and rotation, “ties us together” and gets us places
Rotate: Disassociation of the hips and shoulders, turning on an axis, crossing the mid-line.
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Shahaf Levin said:
Maybe I am just pedantic, but one cannot use the words he defines in the definition.

OSP:NL basic human movements definition (based on Dan John's basic human movements) aim for just that. Defining what the movements are. If someone does not agree with these definitions that's fine, but than I would ask him for an alternative definition and classification of a movement system. If one objects to the concept of defining and classifying movement it another matter.

For example I give the full movement system and definition from Original Strength Performance: The Next Level
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I will have to see if I can find this in Canada. I’m going to put a pin in this before commenting further. I agree with Dan John’s definition of a squat vs a DL. I want to read this fully. I see where he is coming from. But to me they are three distinct movements with overlap. It’s a “what are your goals” kind of thing. I’m fully willing to admit I’m the one being a dog on a bone here or I’m ignorant to human movement knowledge.
 
To the original question - which to choose?
I would not choose one but rather implement a good general barbell program with perhaps more emphasis on the squat vs. DL but not choosing just one thing.

hitting a PR on the DL shows your "Base" is good but making the switch to add barbell work also means you need time to set your skill foundation to the new exercises/skills.

JMO
 
North Coast Miller said:
Squats, esp back squats or other bilateral loaded from the top type of squat.

Is good to get whole body loaded linear compression and squat with heavy weight in addition to the KB work, which by nature is mostly limited to what you can clean.
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Good question. I often wonder this. I personally perfer KB front squats. To me it is too easy to mess up a barbell squat.
 
Mark Kidd said:
Good question. I often wonder this. I personally perfer KB front squats. To me it is too easy to mess up a barbell squat.
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I like Front and Zircher, but feel like I get a lot more out of it with a bit of forward tilt/torque at the hips and having the load across my shoulders - that whole skeleton compression factor. This is why I prefer Skaters to pistols or RFESS for that matter.

Relative to the OP it feels like the hinge pattern gets plenty of attention using KBs or other portable weights where every lift starts off the floor.
 
North Coast Miller said:
I like Front and Zircher, but feel like I get a lot more out of it with a bit of forward tilt/torque at the hips and having the load across my shoulders - that whole skeleton compression factor. This is why I prefer Skaters to pistols or RFESS for that matter.

Relative to the OP it feels like the hinge pattern gets plenty of attention using KBs or other portable weights where every lift starts off the floor.
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Skaters?
 
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