Bodyweight Dealing with sticking point in chin up

[Marty Lynden]

Hi everyone, looking for some advice as how to deal with a particular sticking point in the chin up? I have put in quite some time and effort in my weighted chin up training over the last year or so. Basically just looking to get as strong as possible in that lift. My current max is bodyweight (82.6 kg) + 44 extra kilos. However I kind of feel like I have quite a bit extra to give.

Problem is that I am much stronger in the bottom half of the lift. When I pulled the 44 kg extra it felt like I flew out of the bottom but as soon as I hit 90 degrees elbows it turns into a massive grind, My brother, that spotted me, said it looked like someone threw on an additional 10 kg as soon as I got my arms to 90 degrees flexion. I mostly notice this at 88% and heavier, for lower weights the velocity from bottom is good enough to get me through the upper part without any trouble.

My initial thought is that I perhaps need to spend more time training in the range that is problematic for me? But what would be the best way to do that and how should I program it with regards to my regular volume of chin ups? I am fairly good at handling volume. My latest cycle were 4 weeks with 400 total NL at 81% average intensity (looking to reduce that slightly though) and no injuries or particular fatigue. With that said I´m a bit cautious as how to progress?

cheers
Marty

 

[Anna C]

Reps with static holds or slow movement through and around the sticking point (with slightly less extra weight) may be helpful.

 

[Bunn]

In addition to Anna's suggestions, you could also try starting from the top and doing controlled negatives.

 

[Karen Smith]

Agree with @Anna C and @Bunn
Iso holds and slow negatives heavier than your current pull. Load your belt, use something to climb higher than bar so your not pulling but can get set up to hold and control the lower thru the sticking point.
maybe also spend some time with Bw or light load where you pull yo sticking point then do and iso hold for 5-10 sec then complete the rep.
This type will probably cause to you train lower volume did you the neurological fatigue that sets in. However it will fast track you past your current sticking point.

 

[Steve Freides]

All great advice here. I'll add one specific thing: try even just bodyweight, but do a few really slow pullups, 10 seconds from bottom to top, pause for 1 second, 10 seconds from top to bottom.

And one thing not yet mentioned - you're strong enough that you could start working on your 1-arm pullup/chinup. Try using one hand normally and only your index and middle fingers on the other hand, and gradually work your way to less assistance by choosing weaker combinations of supporting fingers, and eventually just one finger on the other hand. Some of this kind of work might lead you to discover a side-to-side imbalance and, even if it doesn't, it's good training. @Karen Smith's point about lowering the volume is worth repeating - one arm work is particularly fatiguing to the CNS.

-S-

 

[Marty Lynden]

Thank you everyone, solid advice! Will be a bit of a challenge to program, but I gave it some thought and will experiment with all your suggestions. I Think I will use Fabio Zonins program 1trm-ev-ps-program as sort of template. That will be about half the volume and also a lower baseline intensity compared to what I am currently used to, also I really like the plan strong methodology. For the heavy day I´ll do the slow heavy negatives and iso holds per @Karen Smith's suggestion.

And for the other days I´ll mix in a few sets or reps of slow controlled reps as Steve and Anna suggested. As for Steve´s question regarding any imbalances I have to say that there is a noticeable difference between my right and left side. Left side just feels a little bit "off". So I think I will implement some of the assisted 1-arm pullups as well. Gonna take some trial and error. But this seems like a prime example of when smarter training is neccessary.

cheers
Marty

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

Problem is that I am much stronger in the bottom half of the lift.

It's everyone problems, due to the...

Strength Curve

Exercises have one of three Strength Curves...

1) Ascending Strength Curve: Hard at the bottom and easy at the top: Squat, Bench Press, etc.

2) Bell Shaped Strength Curve: Easy at the start and finish and hard in the middle; Curls, Triceps Push Downs, etc.

3) Descending Strength Curve: Pull Ups/Chins, Bent Over Rows, etc.

While you can improve strength in those area, they don't go away.

...Pperhaps need to spend more time training in the range that is problematic for me.

Definitely, train the weak link in the chain which is the upper part of the chin up.

Isometric Holds

As posted, performing an Isometric in the weak part of the movement increases strength when performed for 3 - 10 seconds.

Weighted Isometric Holds would be effective.

Slow Eccentrics

Barbell - Fast Eccentrics For Hypertrophy and Maximum Strength

Short-term high- vs. low-velocity isokinetic lengthening training results in greater hypertrophy of the elbow flexors in young men https://www.physiology.org/doi/pdf/10.1152/japplphysiol.01027.2004 …higher velocity (3.66 rad/s) isokinetic lengthening contractions are associated with greater...

www.strongfirst.com

Research posted on another thread, listed above, has demonstrated that Fast Eccentrics are more effective than Slow Eccentrics.

Slow Eccentric develop more of the Endurance Slow Twitch Muscle Fiber.

“...Going slower will not improve the stimulatory affect of the eccentric. …it won’t recruit and stimulate more fast-twitch fibers.”

Fast Eccentrics

Fast Eccentric Actions as with Fast Concentric Contraction recruit and develop Fast Twitch Type IIa and "Super" Fast Type IIb/x Muscle Fiber; the Maximum Strength and Power Muscle Fiber.

A Fast Eccentric is one that that is performed in approximately one (1) second.

While Slow Eccentric will develop some strength, it will not be to the same extent as a Fast Eccentric does.

Cluster Sets

Fast Twitch Muscle Fiber tire quickly, in around 10 -15 seconds.

Once a Fast Twitch Muscle Fiber is exhausted they aren't working. Slow Twitch Muscle Fiber are then innervated to continue the movement.

That one of the reason, the velocity/speed of the movement slows down.

Research show that taking small rest breaks between each repetition or small cluster of repetitions (2 - 3 reps) allow the Fast Twitch Muscle Fiber to be rejuvenated.

Rest Period between these cluster of 10 -60 second allow you to perform more repetition and weight in a Cluster Set.

Cluster Sets allow for the restoration of ATP, Adenosine Triphosphate, that fuels the Fast Twitch Muscle Fiber.

Restoration of around 50% is obtained with a 30 second rest period.

Restoration of right at 80% is obtained with a rest period of 45 seconds, as per Dr Greg Haff.

 

[Marty Lynden]

Great info Kenny! Some real gems in that post. Especially the part about fast eccentrics were something I didn´t know. So if I understood you correctly I should basically load up the weights and do a fast eccentric from the top as a one second eccentric, which will basically be a controlled "drop", right? What about partial reps involving both the concentric and eccentric part in just the top half of the range, pulling to a 90 degrees elbow flexion and then only going that low in the eccentric phase before pulling myself back up. I was thinking maybe to combine that with the holds. So, pull all the way to the top, drop down to 90 degrees flexion, do a 3-10 second hold and then back up, and so forth?

Think I will need to implement those cluster sets, cause that will probably be pretty draining..