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Kettlebell Decathlon Training with kettlebells (help)

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Decathlete

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Hey guys,

So as I'm sure you can tell by my account name I'm a decathlete. With nationals coming up this summer and I'm back home and no longer at university I've decided to use predominantly kettlebells for my strength training because there is nowhere at home where I can perform the Olympic lifts, and kettlebells are the closest thing which can replicate the results.

The trouble is I'm not sure if I should do the Simple and Sinister program or something more advanced due to the highly varied nature of my sport. My main training consists of mostly things such as pole vault, running 400m's, hurdles, discus, etc. All the technical work involved in a decathlon and a lot of running basically. With this being said I need to do something that won't tire me out completely for my next day of training and let me properly perform technical work the next day, yet still make me more explosive and stronger at the same time.

The program I was considering to follow is this one here, I think that it would cover my goals nicely.
Strength and Endurance With Kettlebell Complexes


If anyone has experience with this kind of thing I would love to hear what you have to say, thank you.
 
@Decathlete :
Decathlete said:
If anyone has experience with this kind of thing I would love to hear what you have to say, thank you.
Click to expand...
I am not an expert, but maybe I can give some kind of hints on some
Useful ressources:
- "Easy Strength" by Dan John and Pavel: answers the question on how sport athletes should strength train in an minimalistic non exhaustive approach to leave the athlete fresh enough to train on the aspects of the chosen sports. Literally a goldmine for athletes, trainers, enthusiasts
- "Underground Secrets to faster running" by Barry Ross (only 86 pages, which I would call a condensed masterpiece of world class experience), an elite track & field (sprinters like Allison Felix) trainer who in his approach refers to Pavel's "Power to the People" meaning making the athlete stronger, without putting on additional mass. He prefers his athletes doing heavy concentric only deadlifts (to minimize sarcoplasmic hypertrophy) as his weapon of choice over the olympic lifts and explains why. And a press like the bench press as the bread and butter for strength building
- "Power to the People" a classic in minimalistic strength building via a pull (deadlift) and a press (side press, bench press) and cycling for programming
- S&C Training for MMA With Simple & Sinister - StrongFirst a great article from Pavel Macek. An elite MMA Fighter using Simple and Sinister as foundational template for Generalized Physical Preparation. (An MMA Fighter is not a Decathlete, but I think both have to improve many attributes)

in regards to this program of complexes, it could be a question, how much of hypertrophy you would need (maybe the throwing events?)

hope there is something you find useful for your planning, and someone experienced and knowledgeable from this forum will chime in.
 
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Are you still working with a Coach for Nationals?

What program just depends on the areas that need more improvement etc...
 
Thanks so much @Harald Motz , I've read Power to the People and skimmed over Easy Strength myself before this, but I'll be sure to give the other articles a good read as well. And next to an article about decathletes, MMA is probably as good as it's gonna get. Regarding hypertrophy, it would be best to keep it to a minimum because it only helps with the throwing events but hinders the other 7, so getting bigger doesn't have much reward for my overall score. Also I'm 6'1, 185lbs, I've never taken a body fat percentage test but I think it's somewhere around the 12-14% range so where my weight is now is the area I'd like to keep it in. Pure strength and explosive power is really what I need to become stronger in.

@Brett Jones , I am working with a coach for nationals but it is mostly for technical work and a bit of running, plus I'd like to learn as much as possible about strength training now so when I am older I can be self sufficient. It is really hard to find a full coaching staff when you're on your own. Also there's a lot of cross over between all the events that really just call for all around explosive power, except for the 1500m, but that also everyone's lowest scoring event.
 
Keep the focus on Nationals (you are young and have lots of time to learn etc...)
Good low rep strength work (sq, dl, bench, pull-ups etc...) and KB ballistics are likely the right mix for your strength and conditioning routine
I think the Barry Ross book covers some of that and for the KB ballistics I think a good "heavy" swing or snatch routine (3-5 reps at the top of each minute x 20 min or so) will fit the needs here

All of this is general because I don't know all the specifics with your history etc...
 
Yeah I probably should have mentioned my physical history. Ok so general overview I squat 230lbs for 5 reps, 1RM for bench is 195lbs, I do pushups almost daily (5-6 days a week), I don't deadlift that often, My 1RM for clean is 225lbs and I can do 8 pullups with perfect form at a controlled pace. I'm very healthy physically, and have no injuries or history of repeated injury.

The decathlon within itself is an event where you just transfer general athleticism from one event to the next, provided you are technically sound.
 
Hey,

I am not an expert in decathlon. I only used to run semi-marathon a few years ago, but only for myself, not in competition.

When I couldn't run (not enough time or whatever), I used to do high reps sets (15 or more), with a medium weight. Between sets, rest periods were pretty short (never more than 25s).

That way, my "advice" should be the following : do swings, snatchs, clean & jerks, squats, in circuits (eg: 15 - 20 OH swings, 15 snatchs (each side), 15 C&J (each side) and 25 squats, then have a rest for 25s and repeat.

If you wish, anoter challenging exercise is jumping lunges !

High reps and short rests will challenge your endurance and lungs pretty well. With me, it worked really good.

Hope this will help you !

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
I wonder how often do you train and how much time did you plan to designate for strength training?
I suppose you train already a lot since you have to do ten disciplines.
Thr book Easy Strength might be useful for you. Whatever you decide keep us updated on how it went. It is interesting to hear from a real athlete what works and what doesn't.
 
@Marlon Leon , I currently train 4 days a week with school (would be 5 but one day has class literally all day so I can't make it to practice), and each session is approx 3 hours. Once the summer comes I am going to do 2 sessions a day, one for technical work/running, and another for strength training. There is just so much once the summer rolls around you can't do it all in one session, the fatigue is just too great by the end.

I just finished reading Easy Strength and I'm loving the idea of having two different two week sessions, one sessions being the Program Minimum, and the other being Power to the People. I think that would be the best for me in my situation because it would allow me to become stronger and more explosive while minimizing time and fatigue from the lifting. Also going back to your question, I want to minimize time strength training because although it is important, the technical work is the most important part, the strength it just to supplement my sport.

@pet' , it's funny that you mention that jumping lunges are a great exercise, I used to do them all the time in high school along with box jumps and medicine ball throws, all while wearing a 60lb weighted vest. (I was solely a high jumper in high school so all I focused on was being able to jump high while being very technically proficient, needless to say high jump is currently my best event in university).

I can't find a copy of Underground Secrets to Faster Running online at all so reading that book will have to go on the back burner for the time being, which is sad because from what you guys are saying it seems like a valuable resource.

Once the summer comes around I'll be sure to keep this thread updated with what I am doing for my strength work and how it is working out for me.
 
Not sure about decathlon, but I am currently working towards a triathlon event, so train 3 disciplines (all focused on endurance though so take this with a grain of salt). Also I am not an expert at all!

I think your approach will necessarily have to be a bit more complex than doing the same thing all year round.

With the volume of endurance, power, speed and technique work you do you will have to be careful not to burn out and strength training not leaving you in a bad shape deteriorating your technique in the 10 disciplines

How is your training structured, i.e. do you have an annual training plan? You will need to have some kind of periodization, and that includes the strength work. The idea being to progress from general to specific leading to your main event

Typically you would have a base period which is used to get your technique up to speed, as well as base endurance, and that is the period where you do most strength training (to achieve maximal strength). You would progress this from pure strength into strength endurance and power over the period.
This for triathletes usually lasts around 12-16 weeks, and leads up to the build period, where you reduce volume and add intensity (again this is relevant for endurance events but might have some carryover into your throwing and jumping events). During that period strength training takes a back seat and goes more into maintenance, as you ramp up the training for your events pure strength work would interfere too much... this is the time for muscular force and endurance training
Usually this is also programmed for 12 weeks

Prior to your main event (the nationals in your case) you do a peak period for about 3 weeks simulating your event with low volume but very high intensity, followed by a careful taper of 2 weeks leading to the event... strength training is purely maintenance then if anything at all

Now the programs you do for strength are obviously different for each period, as the goals are different (you would go from most general to very specific)

In general you go from brute strength programs (like power to the people, or 5x5, or 531 etc) into more power and endurance based programs (like snatch/swings based training, higher rep squats, hill sprints, pushing a big gear on a bike uphill with low cadence, or probably S&S and PM) into pure maintenance (S&S is excellent for that!)

TL DR:
nothing wrong with doing 2 week blocks of PTTP and S&S year round! If you do not want to have a very involved approach then that is exactly what you should do!
However it really depends how your specific training is planned, as PTTP and S&S may be too light in the beginning and too hard at the later periods. Again this is largely focused on endurance events, I do not know anything about training for throwers etc

You may want to talk to Dan John, he is one of the best coaches for athletes out there, and a gentleman
 
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Hey,

I agree the long term programmation. Do you know the "Insanity program" ?

It consists on an intense cardio training program based on bodyweight. It is developped by Shaun T. You have to follow some videos. A training session lasts about 45 to 50 minutes, 6 days a week, during 2 months.

I followed this program last year and my VO2 max was clearly improved, so did my endurance and explosivity.

Nevertheless, you have to be quite careful because this is really physically demanding.

There're lots of videos on youtube if you want to see some examples.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
@Decathlete Your ideas sound good. Start out easy with any strength program and give your body time to adapt.
Your workload is impressive. Probably keep strength training at two sessions of 30 minutes per week.
Also consider whether you are proficient with an exercise before choosing a program.

Good luck!
 
@ClaudeR I do have an annual training plan which my coach has made for the school year, starting with a strength endurance phase (light lifting, bodyweight exercises, etc), followed by a strength acquisition phase, and then as competition season rolls around, which is now, we focus on power acquisition with high intensity, heavy weight, and low volume. The issue with nationals is that I only have 6 weeks after school ends to get my strength back/power back. I don't know anything about triathlon training but in the decathlon/field events (throws/jumps) when you actually compete you aren't your strongest but you're the most technically proficient at this point, but still have a strong base from the periodization that was previously mentioned. Hence that is why I think mixing the PM and PTTP would be a good choice because it is the closest thing to combining the strength and power acquisition phase into one.

I'm also considering now doing the Easy Strength program for 5 weeks, that was I can give myself a week off from the weights before nationals so I will be fresh. As well because the weights are light in the program I can do less grinding and lift more explosively, which will help keep me fresh while developing power/strength at the same time. Also provincials (I live in Canada), are approximately a month after nationals (this is because the Olympics are this year and they are trying to get the team together sooner than usual), and I will most likely do better there than at nationals because it is later in the season and be technically stronger and having allowed myself to become physically stronger in that time too.

@pet' I appreciate the input but the insanity program just wouldn't be right for what it is I am trying to do, it would be too physically demanding, plus while cardio is very important I will be getting that from my running. The main focus with the strength training to just to become stronger and more powerful.

@Marlon Leon I appreciate the input, and I am proficient at the 3 power lifts, which would be the basis of the strength training. I really appreciate you looking out for that though.
 
Decathlete said:
in the decathlon/field events (throws/jumps) when you actually compete you aren't your strongest but you're the most technically proficient at this point, but still have a strong base from the periodization that was previously mentioned
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same here, with both strength and endurance, for the race/competition you are not at your strongest or even fittest, the taper will make you lose some strength and endurance but reduce fatigue so you come on form

Decathlete said:
starting with a strength endurance phase (light lifting, bodyweight exercises, etc), followed by a strength acquisition phase, and then as competition season rolls around, which is now, we focus on power acquisition with high intensity, heavy weight, and low volume.
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I would tend to think that is the wrong way around? Why do endurance first then strength, wouldn't it make more sense to increase pure strength first then work on endurance based on your higher strength level? Honest question!
 
I can see why you would think that, but remember for the decathlon 9/10 events are strength and power events, the endurance isn't as big of a part of it. It is like how I mentioned when competing we are not at our strongest. With training endurance first, if we lose some endurance throughout the season there is less impact on our events as opposed to if we lost strength, hence why there is more of a focus on it in the later season. Plus not to mention the endurance does come from running at high intensities repeatedly when training speed in the later season as well.
 
Okay so update time. With nationals being this friday and saturday, and my last practice being today, I thought I would give you guys an update as to what I did and how it worked out.

For strength training I ended up doing weighted pistols with a 16 kilo KB, weighted pullups with a 15lb weighted west, military presses with a 24 kilo KB, one arm pushups, and one legged deadlifts with a 24 kilo KB (that was purely for movement purposes, I get enough hamstring/glute activation from sprints/jumps).

-For pullups I could barely do 8 before, and today after a full practice of pole vaulting and gymnastics I was able to do 9 pullups in an exhausted state! Each was from a dead hang to having the chin over the bar without kipping (can't start cheating myself). So I estimate that in a rested state I would be able to do anywhere from 12-15 pullups.

-Regarding the pistols my vertical jump increased about 2 inches, and I never tested my max squat but I was able to squat 20lbs more for 5 reps than I could before, and I probably could have increased more but I only went to the gym when my girlfriend went to lift if our schedules matched up, which happened to be twice.

-For the military presses/OAP I saw my OAP go from 2 to 5 reps, and I can't say more than that because I didn't have a way to measure my new strength regarding those muscles.

I'm feeling good for nationals this weekend, my cardio is gone because I hurt my knee high jumping 2 weeks ago and had to take some time off to let it heal, but besides that I feel good to go. After nationals are over and I can just focus on getting in better shape for the pre-season in September I'm going to do the Rite of Passage from Enter the Kettlebell, as I feel it fits my needs perfectly.

I might update this thread one more time with my results this weekend, this is my first decathlon but I'm really excited and nervous at the same time.

Stay strong guys.
 
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