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Kettlebell Delayed symptoms

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6was9

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One of the moments of getting older.
When I was younger it was simple: you workout, tweak something, it hurts. You stop, and in a few days it gets better and that's it.

As I got older (over 50 now) symptoms tend to be delayed. I can go through a workout without issues. Then, an hour later a shoulder or back starts hurting. The next day it is worse. I am thinking "went a little too much on volume" or "that rep was dicey"...

Once paid with several months of rotator pain after one good session of a+a snatches. I reckon older guys (some at least) should be careful with the volume.
 
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I'm not sure that is limited to older guys. I did a little practice this morning with no real issues, finished with a ruck of only 15 minutes or so and light weight of only 30 lbs. I felt fine afterwards. It's been a few hours and now my right hip/quad/lower back are hurting, so I obviously tweaked something, but I don't even know what I did.
 
McKenzie's, "Treat Your Own Back" has an interesting anecdote on this subject. He gives the example of someone who plays football outside all afternoon, feels great afterwards, then sits on the couch for a few hours and his back goes out when he gets up. His explanation is that postural things can be all the more important when we're warmed up and our tissues are more pliable because they'll deform more easily in that state. (My paraphrase of what he says - don't have the book in front of me.)

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McKenzie's, "Treat Your Own Back" has an interesting anecdote on this subject. He gives the example of someone who plays football outside all afternoon, feels great afterwards, then sits on the couch for a few hours and his back goes out when he gets up. His explanation is that postural things can be all the more important when we're warmed up and our tissues are more pliable because they'll deform more easily in that state. (My paraphrase of what he says - don't have the book in front of me.)

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Jives with my experience. n=1. Nothing more "low stakes dangerous" than driving 2-3 hours home from a weightlifting meet. Or the 1hr home from a team training session. Or 8 hours from an Aussie footy match... A lumbar support and a very careful extrication from the car helped - along with a hip & spine sequence. But it was touchy, even in my 20s.
 
I find the warm up and cool down to be more and more important as I get older. Can I go without? Of course, but I'll have a better session with a warm-up. And I'll feel better later if I have some kind of cool down right after a hard workout.
 
I find the warm up and cool down to be more and more important as I get older. Can I go without? Of course, but I'll have a better session with a warm-up. And I'll feel better later if I have some kind of cool down right after a hard workout.
Interesting. I find warming up only matters to me for my music playing but not for my lifting. (And I’ve never done “cool down” as I’ve never felt the need.)

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Interesting. I find warming up only matters to me for my music playing but not for my lifting. (And I’ve never done “cool down” as I’ve never felt the need.)

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So, you don't do any preparatory sets before your heaviest/hardest set??

I guess it can depend on the kind of work you're doing (I don't, for example, warm-up before mowing or shoveling - I just get going), but I can't think of any athlete that just goes balls-out without some kind of warm up.
 
Interesting. I find warming up only matters to me for my music playing but not for my lifting. (And I’ve never done “cool down” as I’ve never felt the need.)

-S-
Up to a year ago, I needed a lot of warming up before doing presses or squats. Not anymore.

What changed? I improved my mobility through fixing my hunched back/shoulders and doing plenty of sitting in the primal squat. No more joint noises and grinds and only minimal warmups are needed now.

Pavel mentioned in his Q&D book that he does a total of 60 seconds warmup before his practices!!!
 
So, you don't do any preparatory sets before your heaviest/hardest set??

I guess it can depend on the kind of work you're doing (I don't, for example, warm-up before mowing or shoveling - I just get going), but I can't think of any athlete that just goes balls-out without some kind of warm up.
I guess it depends on how close to max loading you plan to practice. For example, testing a new RM needs a lot more warmup compared working with a 10RM load. Also, my cross-country boy does a lot of foot/knee/hip joint warmups before every practice, because these joints are hammered from Stride One.
 
Pavel mentioned in his Q&D book that he does a total of 60 seconds warmup before his practices!!!
Yeah, I know. Whether you need a warm-up depends on the kind of work you're doing and goals for the session, of course.

If I'm just trying to get some work in, it doesn't matter. If I want to really have a good session, it absolutely does.

As far as the cool down goes (and I didn't elaborate earlier), for me it can be just 5 minutes of walking, arm swings, and a stretch or two. It helps regulate my breathing and circulation after a hard session, and makes it easier to transition to whatever activity I'm doing next.
 
So, you don't do any preparatory sets before your heaviest/hardest set??

I guess it can depend on the kind of work you're doing (I don't, for example, warm-up before mowing or shoveling - I just get going), but I can't think of any athlete that just goes balls-out without some kind of warm up.
My lifting sessions rarely start with my heaviest/hardest set, but for something like the ROP, I just pick up the weight and start pressing.

E.g., my deadlift maxes out at about 160 kg - I keep 115, 120, or 125 on the bar, enough weight to count as a work set and not a warmup according to the way most people use those terms. 115 is about 70% 1RM for me. I don't ever lift lighter for my regular deadlift. Of course, there are times in my sessions where, e.g., I might be doing a lighter form of the deadlift before doing my heavier conventional DL's, but that's actually a relatively recent development for me. I'd say my usual lifting doesn't include anything below 70% 1RM as a rule - not that I start at 90% often, but 80% is fine.

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Up to a year ago, I needed a lot of warming up before doing presses or squats. Not anymore.

What changed? I improved my mobility through fixing my hunched back/shoulders and doing plenty of sitting in the primal squat. No more joint noises and grinds and only minimal warmups are needed now.

Pavel mentioned in his Q&D book that he does a total of 60 seconds warmup before his practices!!!
Your primal squat, do you keep your feet parallel ala Kelly Starrett, or toe out ?
Do you collect minutes GTG style, or drop in and hang out for a good bit ?
 
Your primal squat, do you keep your feet parallel ala Kelly Starrett, or toe out ?
Do you collect minutes GTG style, or drop in and hang out for a good bit ?
First few months I was doing them GTG style. Later when they became easier, I just added them to my daily mobility routine.

Most of the time I do them with FSQ stance and toe/knee tracking. Sometimes I would do them with feet and knees together with toes straight... I'm thinking one day I can focus on progressing to pistols. I do need a counterweight with the latter stance... still working on my ankle mobility.
 
I am with Boris on warm up. I tend to get fewer regrets after a workout if I take more time for warm up.

In terms of warm-down, I think it depends on the activity. More important for endurance than for strength training. The more winded I am after the last set the more important warm-down.
 
I tend to get fewer regrets after a workout if I take more time for warm up.
I recommend reading "Power To The People!" on this subject. If memory serves, it cites a study that revealed that the best warmups are whatever one is used to. With patience, one can get used to little to no warmup.

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Besides saving 10 - 15 minutes, what's the downside of warming up? PTTP is over 20 years old, and since then there have been studies demonstrating that warm up has no negative effect on performance. And if it may prevent getting injured I will rather do it. It also gets my mind into the teaining frame.
 
Interesting subject. I psychologically and physiologically feel better with a warm up of some kind. Today I'm starting the Strong Program again working on the basics and doing it "better" than I did my last time with the 40s. I need to get the juices going before I hit them up. The key to me is to do enough to get the effect but not make it a stressful workout of its own.
 
53 years old, with weightlifting/Olympic lifting as my primary focus for almost a year and a half now... I can say that right now for me, warmup is essential.

However, last summer I was also running the Daily Dose Deadlift Plan, and I found that I was able to minimize the warm-up, and, at times, lift the 235 lbs for 5 singles with no warm-up. That was pretty cool.

So, what's the difference? Just speaking for myself, I can train myself to be able to produce force in a relatively limited movement with no warm-up -- the deadlift demands high force production, but that's about all it demands, because the movement is quite simple. Olympic lifting requires great mobility, coordination, speed, tension/relaxation, and high force production. If any of these is missing, the lifts will suffer. The wrists, elbows, shoulders ankles, knees, hips ALL have to be moving well, moving fast, and moving powerfully.
 
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Besides saving 10 - 15 minutes, what's the downside of warming up? PTTP is over 20 years old, and since then there have been studies demonstrating that warm up has no negative effect on performance. And if it may prevent getting injured I will rather do it. It also gets my mind into the teaining frame.
I said this already, but because I can safely assert that almost every single elite athlete does a warm up is really all the evidence I need to tell me that they 'work'.
 
I can safely assert that almost every single elite athlete does a warm up

I agree with this. As you can certainly reference studies that minimize the effects of a warm up prior to practice, you can aslo reference other studies that advocate warm ups to improve performance.

It has been cited warm ups increase HR, tissue temperature, tissue extensibility, as well and contractibility. Also, I believe it helps helps improve the movement patterns needed for the exercise(s) for the day.
 
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