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Bodyweight Different approach to improving pullups and grip strenth

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mprevost

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There is a reflex action that will not allow you to out pull your grip (at least not without considerable concentration). As a result, many people are limited in their pullups by their grip, not their pull. I am one of those people, due to some nerve damage. I've finally made some headway with a simple approach. 3 X per week I am doing 5 sets of pullups to failure. But here is how I do them....hang 10 seconds, do a pullup, hang 10 seconds, do another etc... until you can't hold on. The whole set is done without letting go of the bar. Repeat for 5 sets. All sets are done to failure because you are basically training muscular endurance (which recovers rapidly), though right at the border of muscular endurance and strength.

Try Dan John's test before you start this and periodically to see if you are making progress. Simply hang from a bar for 30 seconds, then do a pullup and repeat until you drop. 3 pullups is OK, 4 is good, 6 + is great.
 
I should say that I arrived at the 10 second hold through experimentation. I wanted to pause long enough to maximally tax grip strength but not too long that it compromised the number of pulls too much. That way you can maintain your pull strength and still focus on grip strength.
 
@mprevost This is great info, thanks for sharing.

Regarding the grip, are you using a thumbs over the bar grip or wrapped around it?
 
When doing Dan John version I can do 3 pull-ups. Its really hard on the grip!
 
I've considered trying pull-ups like this with 1 giant set like the Super Squat program by Randall Strossen which I have liked for squats and bench press. Any input to the difference between a giant set of 20 reps hanging between reps vs the 5 sets? I would need to use a band to do a giant 20 rep set hanging between reps.
 
I spent some time toying with this same idea, but using it for everything (at least for a while).

Girevoy sport athletes spend ten minutes without putting the bells down. True, the nature of the sport allows to spread the fatigue, but it’s A LOT of time under tension anyway.

What if someone did, say, a single push up (weighted or not) or kettlebell squat, then “rested” at the bottom for ten to thirty seconds before attempting to do another single?

I’m not sure about the outcome, but I’m betting this sort of self-limiting exercise must work wonders for one’s mobility, joint health and, quite possibly posture. I wonder if having to breath normally (or even trying to slow it down on purpose) under tension might transform the exercise into a moving Yoga.
 
I used to do bottom pause pushups with my Midshipmen at the Naval Academy. Seemed to really help to increase pushup numbers. My reason for doing it was that you could not cheat pause pushups
 
I've considered trying pull-ups like this with 1 giant set like the Super Squat program by Randall Strossen which I have liked for squats and bench press. Any input to the difference between a giant set of 20 reps hanging between reps vs the 5 sets? I would need to use a band to do a giant 20 rep set hanging between reps.
I wouldn't do a 20-rep set of pullups with longish hangs between. There's a big difference.

Although I am not well-acquainted with these protocols, I did get to try one for the first time a few weeks ago when Derek Toshner and I were playing on a pullup bar in Italy. I did 8 pullups at a rate of one every 15 seconds, so I did 1 rep to start, and after the 8th rep, hung for 15 seconds, bringing my total on the bar time to 2 minutes. Derek had done it earlier, after doing the 6 reps on 15-second hangs Pavel had suggested to him, for 1:30 total.

Afterwards, I told Pavel what I'd done and he said I'd wasted my time, since this protocol didn't address anything I was interested in improving. He was right - it wasn't really a challenge for me. Let's call that one of the benefits of being light and having good grip strength relative to bodyweight.

I would imagine this would be good in the same way a GS athlete might do 10 minutes of snatches but at a rate of 6 per minute (something I've also played with). The idea, it seems to me, is to make going the full length of time trainable without it being a maximum effort. I suspect there's more to it than that, but I think that's at least a part of it.

So, for someone hoping to do 2 minutes of pullups at a TSC, this sort of paced training makes sense to me. OTOH, if you're not someone with already good pullup numbers who is also trying to improve them, I wouldn't bother with this - I think it would take more from you than it would give. I'd say the person who already has at least 15 pullups is a good candidate for this sort of pullup training to increase their max reps for a TSC or otherwise.

For hypertrophy purposes, however, I can't comment.

What if someone did, say, a single push up (weighted or not) or kettlebell squat, then “rested” at the bottom for ten to thirty seconds before attempting to do another single?
That sounds like a similar idea, and might be worth a try, but I think training effect induced would either be more GS reps at a given weight, or hypertrophy. Typical SQ hypertrophy protocols have you rest at the top - my guess is that both ways could work, and perhaps even together, pausing at both places. For a pushup, you'd want to wait at the top - the bottom would be like waiting at the top of a pullup, too much tension/effort and not the point.

-S-
 
Hi Steve

I concur with your assessment. For me, this is grip strength work, while MAINTAINING pullup capability. Longer rest periods would result in way fewer pullups, so probably would reduce my pullup ability over time. My weakness is grip strength, due to nerve damage from a herniated cervical disk. My left side has very weak grip strength. I cannot hang from the bar one handed on my left side.

For me, this will probably result in better pullup numbers over time, but mainly because my pullup limiter is generally grip strength. For those with good grip strength already, you might even go in the opposite direction and use wrist straps for a set or two.

This method might also be a good consideration for climbers, where grip strength is more important than pulling strength.
 
This method might also be a good consideration for climbers, where grip strength is more important than pulling strength.
One of Derek's comments to me - he's a rock climber - is that I'd probably be good at that if I ever tried it.

Mike, do kettlebell swings or deadlifts with longer lockouts help your grip?

-S-
 
Derek had done it earlier, after doing the 6 reps on 15-second hangs Pavel had suggested to him, for 1:30 total.
Steve, considering Derek's grip strength and TSC pull-up prowess, why would Pavel suggest this to him and tell you it was wasted effort to do something similar? Just curious..

I have done the Dan John 30 second protocol and made 2 mins (4 pull-ups) but that's a hard limit for me. How can I increase it progressively?
 
One of Derek's comments to me - he's a rock climber - is that I'd probably be good at that if I ever tried it.

Mike, do kettlebell swings or deadlifts with longer lockouts help your grip?

-S-

Kettlebell swings for sure. Have not done them or deadlifts (barbell anyway) for a year or so since my back injury. Back feels good though and I am squatting with the bar again and have tried a few really light deadlift sessions recently. No interest in going heavy but I would like to work up to a reasonable weight on both again.
 
Steve, considering Derek's grip strength and TSC pull-up prowess, why would Pavel suggest this to him and tell you it was wasted effort to do something similar? Just curious..

I have done the Dan John 30 second protocol and made 2 mins (4 pull-ups) but that's a hard limit for me. How can I increase it progressively?
Derek wants many, bw pull-ups; I don’t really care.

GTG bar hangs are an under-appreciated thing. Try building up to some daily volume in the :45 to 1:30 range for a few weeks.

But one rep every thirty seconds is just a couple of numbers. I think reps on :10 or :15 might be training with more carryover. Maybe train with the shorter hangs, work up to 2:00 at 4-6 reps/min, then try Dan’s test again.

-S-
 
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This method might also be a good consideration for climbers, where grip strength is more important than pulling strength.
Indeed. Grip is way more important than pull strength. But even more important is footwork, body positioning, reading sequences, and other technique issues.

But if one wants to work on both grip and pull at the same time do what are called 'Frenchies'

Pull-up, lock-off and hold for 5 in top position
Lower
Pull-up, lower to 90 deg, lock off and hold for 5
Lower
Pull-up, lower to 135 deg, lock-off and hold for 5
Lower.

That's one 'rep'

And if it's grip you are after... do these on a Fingerboard....
 
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