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Other/Mixed Disabled MAISTS requests help.

Other strength modalities (e.g., Clubs), mixed strength modalities (e.g., combined kettlebell and barbell), other goals (flexibility)
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Evil Wizard Glick

Level 1 Valued Member
Hi there.
I'm 60 this year. I have had severe damage to me left side, shoulder neck. My Trapezius has been removed, seemingly no muscle from middle of left back to shoulder. Left neck tendons taught all the time. Dizziness and some balance issues with movements on the left, like circle walking left side versus right. Cancer surgery.
Anyway, I've been back to training for about a year.
I've always learned to mirror train, both sides equally. Now I can't.
So, do I train different techniques for each side?
 

Snowman

Level 6 Valued Member
Not to seem like I'm just passing the buck, but I think yours is a situation that calls for hands on, face to face training. I do think someone can be very healthy and functional with a certain amount of imbalance, so long as it's kept in check. Doing that would require some combination of using different weights for each side, modifying or eliminating movements, and reestablishing the right kind of body awareness for your "new body." That being said, I can't even guess what that would actually look like for you. I wish I could be more helpful, but the best advice I can give you is to use the instructor finder to find someone who knows what they're doing near where you are. The more experienced they are, the better.
 

Anna C

Level 9 Valued Member
Elite Certified Instructor
Sinister
+1 to @Snowman's input above

The phrase that comes to my mind is, "do what you can do" with good form. Maintaining symmetry is likely an impossible quest, so might as well just train what you are able to on each side.
 

Evil Wizard Glick

Level 1 Valued Member
+1 to @Snowman's input above

The phrase that comes to my mind is, "do what you can do" with good form. Maintaining symmetry is likely an impossible quest, so might as well just train what you are able to on each side.

I know my limits. I can't use the speed bag the way I used too the angle for my left side is too high and gets painful quickly. So no rolling, but I can do straight punches rolled into a backfist. Combine that with moving around the bag and it works out fairly well.

Left side throws my balance off. When washing my hair, for example, I lean too far back. I don't fall over just throws my balance off.
I've started retraining how I move so my balance is more in the center than to the rear.
I once saw a Guy Savelli tape where he claimed that each side should work different techniques. He didn't go into detail as to why.
Maybe save the left for body strikes. Little issue there.
Kind of throws my kicking balance off. Trying to switch to low fast kicks. Nothing higher than waist height. Wing Chun like.
Grappling is pretty much out. So is falling/rolling. No padding on the left.
I also try to focus on fast techniques. Eventually nearly all fights turn into grappling. So I look to fast simple open hand strikes to the eyes for example. Palm strikes to the face or right hand jabs. Eye whips.
Left side is useful just maybe 65%.
 

Evil Wizard Glick

Level 1 Valued Member
Not to seem like I'm just passing the buck, but I think yours is a situation that calls for hands on, face to face training. I do think someone can be very healthy and functional with a certain amount of imbalance, so long as it's kept in check. Doing that would require some combination of using different weights for each side, modifying or eliminating movements, and reestablishing the right kind of body awareness for your "new body." That being said, I can't even guess what that would actually look like for you. I wish I could be more helpful, but the best advice I can give you is to use the instructor finder to find someone who knows what they're doing near where you are. The more experienced they are, the better.

No money and all require too far to travel.
Besides, to be honest, all instructors only know what they know.
If I were to go that route I would look for a Physiotherapist trained instructor.
Kind of narrows the filed.
 

jca17

Level 5 Valued Member
You can narrow the field, but narrow towards what? Every SF instructor Ive worked with (4 or 5) has known more about restoring and mantaining function than the doctors or Physical therapists Ive seen, who can momentarily get you out of pain but then are at a loss at keeping you there. Find an FMS2 certified Strong First instructor if you want to find the right kind of “narrow field”. Will browsing an essentially anonymous forums going to provide better feedback than in person certified instructors? Who doesnt only “know what they know”? Now, not all realize that they only know what they know. Avoid those ones :)
It doesnt matter if someone only knows their own system if that system works. Better to know one system in depth and have experience with all the progressions and regressions and customization rather than know many systems in a general way without deep and refined experience taking clients through any particular one.
 

Snowman

Level 6 Valued Member
Find an FMS2 certified Strong First instructor if you want to find the right kind of “narrow field”.
I know that finances can be an issue, but this really does seem like the best answer to me. I guess it's a matter of deciding if the financial discomfort is worth accelerating the learning curve or not.
 

Evil Wizard Glick

Level 1 Valued Member
You can narrow the field, but narrow towards what? Every SF instructor Ive worked with (4 or 5) has known more about restoring and mantaining function than the doctors or Physical therapists Ive seen, who can momentarily get you out of pain but then are at a loss at keeping you there. Find an FMS2 certified Strong First instructor if you want to find the right kind of “narrow field”. Will browsing an essentially anonymous forums going to provide better feedback than in person certified instructors? Who doesnt only “know what they know”? Now, not all realize that they only know what they know. Avoid those ones :)
It doesnt matter if someone only knows their own system if that system works. Better to know one system in depth and have experience with all the progressions and regressions and customization rather than know many systems in a general way without deep and refined experience taking clients through any particular one.

"No money and all require too far to travel."

I guess you missed that part.
"Physical therapists Ive seen, who can momentarily get you out of pain but then are at a loss at keeping you there"
Dude when your body is damaged only meds will keep you out of pain. I can stretch my neck tendons but in a couple of hours they will be in pain, well uncomfortable, again. My GF has a bad back/neck from being rear ended by a semi. Only meds help. Her brothers motherinlaw had a similar injury, gone through every treatment and only meds help.
The trick is to learn how to work within your limits.
And the older you get the more painful the pain is. Wear and tear on the body.
In my case I'm missing muscles that support and interact with others. If I walk down steps I need to go right foot first because the left foot thumps down as there is no muscle structure there to ease it down.
In all honesty more MA training is dedicated to those without limbs than those damaged or handicapped in other ways. And when you can't attend classes because you slow them down the cost for private lessons becomes rather expensive.
Either way, my initial question was about training each side differently. So my right side can throw head shots and my left body shots. My left can block allowing my right to strike. I can safely shoulder bump with my left and trip or tangle feet. Low kicks are fine and no fast movements to the left. I can angle step any direction and circle step right. I can palm strike the groin and straight punch the solar plexus or liver/spleen. I can work the short ribs. Basic hip throws are ok, but if I place the left shoulder wrong it can be painful.
So anyone with other ideas on different right left combination training?
To change the pace a bit, anyone ever hear of a double punch? The first two knuckles connect then the three from center down connect. I read something about a one inch punch being lined up that way first two connect then three from second down. I always assumed that with the double punch the hip would drive the three knuckle part and the arm the two knuckle. Or the two knuckle would strike down at an angle and the three would strike upward. Stomach solar plexus sun fist thing. Maybe both are just short snapping motions with a slight withdrawal before the second connects.
 

Evil Wizard Glick

Level 1 Valued Member
I know that finances can be an issue, but this really does seem like the best answer to me. I guess it's a matter of deciding if the financial discomfort is worth accelerating the learning curve or not.

The learning curve would be the same. An hour training is an hour training. If you are not training in a specific style the only gain from private training is a sparring partner.
Maybe if we were talking internal styles like Bagua or TCC I could get some Silk reeling and proper alignment tips.
But for self defense a jab is a jab and a snap kick is a snap kick.
I already have a Mook Jong, Speedbag, multiple heavy bags, and a Striking dummy as well as a full size artist dummy with adjustable joints.
As I said I've been training on and off since my teens, right after I saw Enter the Dragon.
Now I'm just training differently, trading gymnast splits and high kicks for low ones.
I've always lead with my right, so no real change there. And I still train the left but it isn't as powerful or have the same range of motion.
My right hand eye whip is so fast I can't see it in the mirror. Left is slower and less accurate but will still blind you if it connects.
I may even consider switching to a left lead until it weakens slightly then after misleading going with the right lead and the strength speed advantage. Lull the opponent into a false sense of security.
Anyway I'm not interested in learning an art. I'm interested in a series of simple techniques. And how to combine those techniques to maximize my damaged left side without leaving it vulnerable.
Training each side differently but combining them into an functional whole.
Crap, reminds me of a couple of styles Yiquan and some Karate based style.
 

jca17

Level 5 Valued Member
By the way, I totally get that there is a time where finances just don't allow it, but I felt the "besides" comment was perhaps overly jaded and might even be part of why you don't think its worth the money. I've also seen my share of duds when it comes to physical therapy, so I understand the skepticism. There's only so much we can do through the forum, and a lot of it is guesswork with such a unique circumstance you have. Hopefully we can help as much as possible with each of our experiences though!
 

Steve Freides

Staff
Senior Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
@Evil Wizard Glick, there are a number of assumptions you're making that responders here are questioning. We haven't "missed that" - we've heard you.

We are telling you that, in your situation, we believe some advice from a professional, in person and specific to you, is what's best. You've said you're a disabled martial artist asking for help - we're trying to help. We're also trying to tell you the ways in which we can't help, and what we think you should do that would help you the most.

+1 to @Snowman, @Anna C, @jca17. This is the StrongFirst forum, and if I may be so bold as to speak for myself and the responders thus far: We recommend improving strength to improve life in general and athleticism in particular. We recommend you pursue strength for the foundational physical attribute it is for everyone. Given your physical limitations, we recommend you work with a skilled, experienced professional in person, be that person a physical therapist, a doctor, or a StrongFirst-certified instructor. We recommend that you work with your MA instructor to determine what MA practices, techniques, and the like are best for you in your current situation.

This thread is now closed.

-S-
 
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