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Old Forum Do martial artist need heavy barbell work?

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Wim,

It all comes down to picking something and actually doing it.  Pick kettlebells, bodyweight, barbell etc or a combo of all.  Fix yourself on a program and follow it for 1 month to 3 months. Then you can tell us how your body reacted and what effect it had on your martial arts.

Since your previous question (in the first post) I have been on the pull up and handstand routine.  My kung fu brother and I have been smashing through the ladders and getting stronger.  I can say for a fact it is helping my martial arts.  I don't need anyone online to tell me.  I'd really suggest doing the same.

You have all the suggestions you need so now you have to pick something and pull the trigger.  Execute your plan and reap the rewards.

Richard
 
Hello Richard, thanks for reacting. I am very curious about how that simple routine look like. Can you maybay give a example how such a workout looks like? I mean do you do the same routine a few times a week, what exceecisis do you do, what kind of sets and reps etc. And what if you can't do a handstand push up to begin with. Do you have advice how to work up to it?
Sorry for asking but it seems a very solid and maybay even a short routine that could work great in combination with mma. Last question, how are the results from that routine? Hope you want to share because I always like to try these kind off routines.
 
Hello Wim,

 

Of course I can describe what I do. I hope it will help you but remember there are so many smarter people on here. All I can say is that this currently works for me / my training partner and we're both martial artists and I think it makes sense as to why.

 

I'll try and answer your questions in order.

 

What does the routine look like?

It is very simple. Tuesday and Friday we perform 6 ladders with a maximum height of 3 rungs. The movements are the chinup/pullup followed by handstand push up (so ladder 1 of the pullups, followed by ladder 1 of the handstand pushups, followed by ladder 2 of the pullups, etc). The rest period is dictated by the partner performing his reps (if you do this on your own just estimate the rest length if someone performed the same rep straight after you). So a sample day session would look like this:

PU 1,2,3/1,2,3/1,2,3/1,2,2/1,2,1/1,1,1//

HS 1,2,3/1,2,2/1,2,2/1,2,2/1,2,1/1,2,1//

We never train to failure. This is repeated each session until 1,2,3 is achieved for the respective 6 ladders. When it is add weight or make the movement harder.

A thing to note is that we decided with the chinups / pullup ladder to first do chin ups until the 6 ladders are completed and then move to thumbless pullups until that ladder of 6 is completed. Then we add weight and start back with the chinups and repeat.  (This is because chinups are easier and we feel that following with pullups fills in any strength gaps).

 

What if you can't do a handstand pushup (or a chin up for that matter)?

If you can't do a decent number of handstand pushups then start like we did by putting something on the floor to go down to like a stack of bricks / books. Complete the 6 ladders and then take away a brick or book and start again. If you can't do them then you could do incline pressups or similar until you can.

For the chinups you can do negatives by jumping up to the top of the bar and lowering yourself under control. This is how I started.

 

What results?

This is of course a little subjective. Muscularly I/we have, no surprise, seen a thickening of biceps, triceps, lats, shoulder musculature etc. It has enabled us both to stay pretty fresh for the rest of our training as we never train to failure. My speed is good and I feel more structure in many movements. It feels like very useable strength.

In the months I have been doing it I have gone from having to embarrassingly jump for a lot of the bodyweight reps in the pull ups to currently chinning with an additional 24kg hanging from me. Handstands have gone from partial range of motion to nose to the ground and next session I will be increasing the depth. Best of all it has been a steady regular approach that makes me confident I will be doing 1/2 bodyweight chinups in the not to distant future etc. My training partner started out in better shape and has seen similar excellent results.

 

**Now not your question but my own suggestion. You mention that you run and like running and that you also like kettlebells. Consider this as an option. Make sure that without fail you do the above for strength every week. If you feel you need additional conditioning on top of what you already do in your MA practice then 2-3 x a week run or do kettlebell swings (I would follow this excellent plan http://brittlift.blogspot.de/2010/09/have-you-got-timetimed-progression-in.html).  But never miss a strength session.  Two a week without fail.

I deliberately don't do any extra conditioning other than 2-3 45 min runs a week because I do a lot of deep stance training which cooks my legs already. If I didn't I might do the kettlebell work.

 

I think all in all this is an excellent routine worth considering. Gives you strength, keeps you pretty rested, doesn't take too long.... what more can you want. The rest is down to consistently doing the sessions.  One thing I will finish with is that you must select something and stick with it for 3 months or more to really get the most from it.  If you decide on this then don't look for anything else..... just get 'er done.

 

I hope that helps.

 

Cheers,

 

Richard
 
Hello Richard,

 

great that you explain it so well. I think its indeed a simple but effective routine.

Have a few more questions, I promise :)

when you say you first perform 6 ladders off chin-ups do you mean then that when you can perform all the 6 ladders of 3 rungs with the chin-up you start all over but then with the pull-ups (because they are harder?)

 

And do you do the handstand push-ups with your back against the wall or with your chest?

I have read somewere that it would be better if you do them with the chest against the wall.

And thanks for the great link for the kettlebell, seems like a good thing to do.

Last question: I read somewere on this forum that you do 20 minutes (or was it 20?) off push-ups and pull-ups and after that yuo do zecher squats with a heavy sandbag for 10 minutes. Seems like a good way to build up some strength and conditioning in the legs to.

How do you do these squats? In sets or as ladders and if so how does it looks like?

And dont you do any abdominal work or do you just the normal sit-ups etc in your fight training?

Sorry for asking all these questions but I like the simplicity off this workout and it seems new to me.

I think the pull-ups dont want to be a big problem, I think I can do them with weights.

But to work up to a handstand push-up will take a lott off harder work but thats okay.

Thanks again for reacting, o by the way, you say you run 2 times a week orso for 45 minutes.

Why is that? Dont you think that it would be better to take a shorter run but then inculde sprints?

Just curious :)

Take care

Wim

 
 
Yes. Once the ladder is completed with the chinups I move onto pullups.  So say you were doing bodyweight chinups and you complete the ladder the next training session you would begin with pullups.  Once that was a complete ladder you might add 5 or 10 kg and do chins etc etc.

Handstand pushups back to the wall.  I find it more efficient to get into position and think it better if you are working for pure strength.  The other way is probably better if you want to do freestanding handstand pushups which isn't something I am aiming for right now.

That kettlebell program is all you need if you ask me.  It is the dogs bollocks and completely free.

The program with Zerchers etc was dropped as it was too exhausting with the other training we do.  Minimalist is best and the above routine works better for my needs.

No abdominal work.  You get plenty of this from heavier pull ups.  Sometimes I do a few hanging leg raises when I pass the bar at the training academy.

I run because I like to run.  It helps clear my head and finish off the day in a nice way.  I get a lot of good thinking done when I am running.

Good luck with your training. I would love to hear how it works out for you if you choose to follow it.

Richard
 
Hello Richard, thanks again for taking the time to explain. As I said, I like this routine and the kettlebell workout. So I want to give it a try. I think the handstand will give me the most problems.

But I will work up to it. Off course I will lett you know how it works for me.

I can e-mail you if thats maybay easyer. In that case you have to give me your mail adress. Otherwise I have to surch on this forum everytime.

Thanks again and take care

 

Wim
 
Hi Wim, to answer strictly to your question : Do martial artist need heavy barbell work ? I answer no, but, if martial artist need to get stronger, yes, wathever the tool. And, 53 is not old, but as we get older, our muscle mass tend to decrease, so, wathever your sport, StrongFirst, if you want to live mobile as long as possible, Strenght and mobility, whole body.
 
Prefer to remind, Strenght,with good techniques to avoid injuries...and muscles groups.
 
Hey Wim,

You can email me if you like just to a google search and I should appear quite easily but it may be good to keep it in the thread so others can benefit.

Best of luck,

Richard
 
Hello Richard,

 

okay, we will do that on this forum. I just was afraid that other readers dont find it interesting :)
 
Hi Wim,

A month has passed. I notice you commenting in the Dan John thread about how that might be a good routine for a martial artist so I thought I would check in and see if you actually followed the program?  You should have seen some results by now...so how did you get on?

Richard
 
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