Kettlebell Does anyone else think the "big jumps" of kettlebells is a little fishy?

[Eric Wilson]

We all know that we should go from 16kg to 24kg to 32kg. Ok, maybe you can use 20kg and 28kg if you must, but man up, why don't you?

And we can all agree that there would be no need for any man to use an 18kg bell. It's like putting washers on a barbell, or something. Your body needs that jolt of a noticibly larger load.

Funny thing, though, I read about people working with the 36kg bell. Why not go straight to 40kg? Where I come from 40/32 = 20/16 -- both are 25% increases.

Sometimes I feel like those that have built the strength that makes 4kg a small weight lose track of the fact that a 25% increase is difficult for anyone. Increasing your max 10% for any lift represents a lot of work.

It isn't very affordable to buy a kettlebell for every 2kg increment, but I think that moving up by 2kg should be encouraged up to 24kg if they are available. And if you went straight from pressing 40kg to pressing 48kg, you can feel free to tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about.

 

[william bad butt]

Yup, I'm in your camp. Although I understand why the otherside does what they do. I procured bells in 4 kg increments. Only one I dont own is the 44kg and I might get one before working with the 48, consistantly.

For my barbell, I have 0.25 lb plates (literal washers, and they are not pink!). I use them all the time. Most of my workouts are a % of my max (or training max), so I can be very precise with my washers. Yes, I might load my bar to 297.5 lb or some weird number, and people probably find that odd.

All rules are guidelines. You must do what's right for you. As long as you are moving in the right direction, dont worry too much about the magnitude of the vector. Just be consistant and move in the right direction. Focus on the multi-decade training plan. Dont worry about maximizing short term gains (unless you compete).

Regards,

Eric

 

[John sardos]

A few things come to mind

1. beginners tend to make bigger jumps faster as there is a learning curve to the movements and if they haven’t done them before their body will adapt quicker to someone with an older training age

2. it depends on the person and theirweight age and experience This could factor in on what kind of increase they should do

3. What are you training makes a difference. If we are talking s&s I believe the book suggests after owning the 16k gradually add in the 24k. This could be for 2/10 sets making the over all workload increase much more manageable from the last session. I think you could also switch to the 20k all together but other method saves money on the bell. I think both options lead to same road.
If we are doing strength work I would say probably beneficial to add 4K jumps or adjust the rep scheme. Example would be you need to complete 10 OH presses on each side with the 16k. Then you will move to the 24k for 2/ea

4. closer to your actual max you get the smaller the jumps should be

my 2cents

 

[Papa Georgio]

We all know that we should go from 16kg to 24kg to 32kg. Ok, maybe you can use 20kg and 28kg if you must, but man up, why don't you?

And we can all agree that there would be no need for any man to use an 18kg bell. It's like putting washers on a barbell, or something. Your body needs that jolt of a noticibly larger load.

Funny thing, though, I read about people working with the 36kg bell. Why not go straight to 40kg? Where I come from 40/32 = 20/16 -- both are 25% increases.

Sometimes I feel like those that have built the strength that makes 4kg a small weight lose track of the fact that a 25% increase is difficult for anyone. Increasing your max 10% for any lift represents a lot of work.

It isn't very affordable to buy a kettlebell for every 2kg increment, but I think that moving up by 2kg should be encouraged up to 24kg if they are available. And if you went straight from pressing 40kg to pressing 48kg, you can feel free to tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about.

So this video link gets passed around here quite a bit concerning weight increments: The Benefit of Jumps Between Kettlebell Sizes

Pavel recommends 8kg jumps in S&S for many of those reasons, even though in the video he illustrates the large magnitude of difference between 32kg and 36kg. Obviously, as explained in the video, he's trying to drive a lot of volume, but I think part of it is also making the program more minimalistic from an equipment point of view. I am not Pavel, but I like 4kg jumps if you can afford it. Especially as the bells get heavier.

JMO

 

[John Grahill]

From my perspective...the heavier kettlebells, well, they're heavy!! I think things are relative. Right now I'm doing "Strong!" in phase 2 with 2 36's. The double 40's at this point would be a tad too much for safely completing the whole program and the 32's would be a tad too light. The 36's for now are a goldilocks pair.

 

[Dasho]

If you think of them as halves and whole units of poods, which are 16kg each, it doesn't seem that fishy. Same reason there isn't a market for 3.3 pound, 4.72 pound, and 10.9 pound plates or something like that.

 

[Im out]

the 8kg jumps will help you correct your form. easier to cheat your way up by using 2kg increments.

but hey you could tape 2kg plates to your bells. I did last summer.

 

[coachnathanwhite]

@Eric Wilson

The aggressive jump in weight, let's say from the 24 to the 32, has two clear advantages.

1) These types of jumps in weight force your body to adapt at the cellular level and get stronger. Pavel call these changes "discrete" in the S&S manual, meaning distinct.

2) You have to be ready. You have to spend a lot of time with and truly own the 24 before you can just move on to the 32. It takes all the ego / emotion out of it and requires the discipline to follow the program.

 

[Moyni19]

From my perspective...the heavier kettlebells, well, they're heavy!! I think things are relative. Right now I'm doing "Strong!" in phase 2 with 2 36's. The double 40's at this point would be a tad too much for safely completing the whole program and the 32's would be a tad too light. The 36's for now are a goldilocks pair.

How’s KB strong going with the 36’s? I’m thinking about doing strong and one program with 36’s fro strong and 24’s for one

 

[IMayAgainKnowChris]

I can say that the Jump from the 16 to the 24 helped in a lot of ways that I don’t imagine a 2/4kg jump would have. I’m not considerably strong but I had sloppier form with the 16 on the TGU for sure. The 24 corrected that immediately. Maybe I was strong enough for the 24 from the start and just started too light. I guess it’s all relative to the individual.

For me, trying to swing an 8kg bell just, like, doesn’t “work” So there’s definitely a sweet spot.
Haven’t ever touched a 32 though. I’m sure that’s a different animal all together. But like with the 16 to 24 for my swings, I just added them in and rested adequately. Rest was big with the larger jump.

 

[crazycanuck]

Depends on the exercise, and other factors. I am swinging 24kg for timeless simple, and can do maybe 3 or so one handed (not chest height, more like a bit above waist) with my 32kg, and 8-10 2 handed. With S&S 2.0, I don't think I would invest in a 28kg, as we are "allowed" to set the bell down, rest, and pick it up again that side to finish the 10 reps.

As a female however, I would not dream of jumping from 16kg to 24kg for getups, my 20kg I am working with is more than enough work for me, and with no spotter that has been a slow-practice in stages process as it is.

 

[IMayAgainKnowChris]

@Eric Wilson

The aggressive jump in weight, let's say from the 24 to the 32, has two clear advantages.

1) These types of jumps in weight force your body to adapt at the cellular level and get stronger. Pavel call these changes "discrete" in the S&S manual, meaning distinct.

2) You have to be ready. You have to spend a lot of time with and truly own the 24 before you can just move on to the 32. It takes all the ego / emotion out of it and requires the discipline to follow the program.

Thumbs up to #2. I’m sure some people COULD swing the 32 that practice daily with a 24 but it’s a matter of when they SHOULD probably. And HOW.
About #1. I remember reading or hearing “discrete” and raising an eyebrow in regards to 8kg jumps.

 

[coachnathanwhite]

About #1. I remember reading or hearing “discrete” and raising an eyebrow in regards to 8kg jumps.

With programming, you could better prepare your nervous system to handle the jump in load by adding isometric holds such as double KB rack hold, bottoms up hold, suitcase carry hold, and waiter carry hold. Isometrics with only bodyweight are great as well: hardstyle plank, side plank, flexed bar hang, straight arm bar hang, and leg raise are a few.

I also like the KB push press and a variety of carries for distance, going as heavy as possible with good technique.

 

[Adachi]

It isn't very affordable to buy a kettlebell for every 2kg increment, but I think that moving up by 2kg should be encouraged up to 24kg if they are available. And if you went straight from pressing 40kg to pressing 48kg, you can feel free to tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about.

I guess I view it oppositely. In physics , The work power relationship of a system would indicate smaller jumps are needed the further up you go. What's the saying ? Bugatti Veyron would need 100 HP more to get 1 mph faster .? Or something like that . Physiology suggests Novices go up in strength fastest earliest . Maybe it's because they're so far away from their biological potential. I agree with @IMayAgainKnowChris about the instructive nature of a large weight increase.
And step loading with a weight that's foreign feeling until it becomes boring is very smart and self correcting , for many. And every program can not include outliers at some point.

 

[offwidth]

I think that some folks are going to be able to relatively easily make 8kg jumps from 16 to 32 in both Swings and TGU’s. Others may be challenged in either swings or TGU’s or both. Some like me went from 16 to 24 easily; 24 to 32 in swings doable but not easy. 24 to 32 in TGU... just ain’t gonna happen without stopping over at 28... but I’m older and lighter. We’re all gonna have different needs.

 

[Steve Freides]

Does anyone else think the "big jumps" of kettlebells is a little fishy? ... I think that moving up by 2kg should be encouraged up to 24kg if they are available.

I’m not sure why you’ve chosen the word “fishy”. My dictionary defines it as “arousing feelings of doubt or suspicion.” Certainly no one is able to force you to use a size kettlebell other than the one you wish to use.

I went from 16 to 24 because 24 was the next available size in January, 2002 when I bought my second kettlebell.

we can all agree that there would be no need for any man to use an 18kg bell

I’m rehabbing a problematic right shoulder and doing snatches with an 18 kg. If I didn’t have one, I’d be ok with a 16 or a 20. We keep one because it’s a good weight for my wife when she’s working on her press. She could rep a 16 but never get a 20, so 18 was a logical choice.

-S-

 

[John K]

Keep in mind that relative intensity is only a part of the picture. Absolute intensity is a totally different beast. Moving from 16kg to 20kg in the get up I found quite easy, but moving from 32kg to 40kg has proven quite a lot more challenging, despite being the same 20% increase. When the absolute intensity is less, the relative increase can be quite a bit more.

Percentages only tell a part of the story. More of the story is told by absolute weight. And more of the story is told by who you are and your training history. It also depends what is holding you back. I don't think there is one answer for everyone - asking an 80 y/o old to follow the same progression as a 20 y/o.

 

[WxHerk]

Certainly no one is able to force you to use a size kettlebell other than the one you wish to use.

I went from 16 to 24 because 24 was the next available size in January, 2002 when I bought my second kettlebell.


I’m rehabbing a problematic right shoulder and doing snatches with an 18 kg. If I didn’t have one, I’d be ok with a 16 or a 20.
-S-

Exactly!! In 2002, after enormous success with "Power to the People," I dove in and bought the 16kg, 24kg, and 32kg set. After kinda figuring out the 16kg my only choice was the 24kg, same for the next jump.

@Coyotl hits the nail on the head!! Every trainee has several different variables that make up each session, let alone who he/she is on average. I relearned that this afternoon when I was snatching. Yesterday, I rucked 44lbs for an hour in the South Mississippi humidity. Took about three 32kg A&A snatch repeats today to realize that today would be a bit more challenging than usual..

 

[Oscar]

I personally prefer 4 kg jumps. I tried the 8 kg jumps doing S&S, and worked well for TGU but ended up with minor issues with the swings. All problems were solved when I started swinging the 28, and I achieved Simple shrotly after.

In the context of S&S, 8 kg might make some sense. However, they seem excessive to me for presses and snatches. Snatching the 32 noth having ever touched a 28, is it even safe?

4 kg is a big enough jump, in my opinion. It can range from 12% to 25% increase for most common sizes of kettlebells, that's plenty. Furthermore, even if its "only" 12% when using the 32, many of us are approaching our limit when using the 32 for many exercises, like presses or snatches, so why would we want a 25% increase when working close to out limit?

 

[CMHoward]

Simple answer is that at sub 24kg kbs its really not much of an issue for ballistic movements. If one is in reasonably good shape the advancement isn't too strenuous.
Once you start with the 32kg on S&S I've found that with TGUs you hit a wall.
I breezed through S&S with a 20 and 24 kg kbs and can do the timed simple with the 32 now after just 6 weeks of moving up.
Im currently using a 40kg for swings, but haven't attempted on the TGUs .
Im not going to attempt it for quite some time either because im pretty certain it would be ugly, especially since i dont have a spotter.
Im going with Pavel and all the other wiser posters here...OWN the kb before moving up.
There is absolutely no reason to rush things as this isnt a competition...its "practice".
Btw...i'll be 59 in September and had a TGU with the 40kg as a goal. We'll see, but if im not 100% confident before attempting, I won't try it.