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Kettlebell Double Front Squat vs Goblet Squat

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banzaiengr

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Looking for some feedback here. I recently went to deadlifting oncer per week, with that I decided to add some squats and goblet squats seemed to fit the bill. The heaviest KB I have available is a 40K. I worked up to 5x8 with that and since I'm using this as more of a deadlift accessory lift (glute activation) wanted to add weight rather than reps. The only other thing I had available is 2 - 45 lb. KB which of course is just a small amount over the 40K. Interestingly enough I found the double KB front squats to be extremely easier than the goblet squat. Anyone else found this? Stick with the goblet?

With this change I also went to 2 - 45 lb. swings rather than 40K 2 hand swings. This of course seems to be a whole other beast and seems to be working me differently than the 2 hand swing. Thanks in advance.
 
Hardest part of goblet squat with heavier bells is getting the bell in the goblet position initially. The double rack position is easier to get into and allows for more weight progression if you ever get heavier doubles. I don't know which carries over more to deadlift but I've heard people say that increasing front squat has increased their deadlift, especially getting it off the floor.
 
I like goblet squats for squat form check and for prying and don't use anything heavier than 32kg for that. Squatting I will use Doubles for the Front Squat. Lights up the abs in addition to the posterior.
 
how was your ROM on each of the versions (gob vs DBFS). I totally agree with MikeMoran, I feel from personal experience and working with clients, it's easier to get depth and work on "prying" with the goblet than with the FS. however, nothing challenges my abs/core more than the FS. maybe have a look at if there is a difference in depth between the two and see if you can make them the same? It can be harder to get the same depth with the reistance being in front of both of your shoulders than when its against your chest and completly centred.
 
how was your ROM on each of the versions (gob vs DBFS). I totally agree with MikeMoran, I feel from personal experience and working with clients, it's easier to get depth and work on "prying" with the goblet than with the FS. however, nothing challenges my abs/core more than the FS. maybe have a look at if there is a difference in depth between the two and see if you can make them the same? It can be harder to get the same depth with the reistance being in front of both of your shoulders than when its against your chest and completly centred.

a#@ to the grass with both.
 
Personally, I would use both squat variations - they're both fantastic exercises. One thing to note, there is probably more posterior shear stress on the lower back in a heavy goblet squat because the weight is out in front of you opposed to a double kettlebell front squat which is essentially stacked close to your body. Alternatively, if you have assess to a barbell just do barbell front squats. However, any kind of squat variation has struggled to get over 35% Maximum Voluntary Contraction (MVC) in the glute max so it may not be a great exercise for glute activation. Something like kettlebell loaded hip thrust, any swing variation, step ups, band walking or a back extension would be better for glute activation.
 
for me it's a matter of grip - the rack position in the DFSQ allows you to mold the bells into your chest, draw the shoulders down and back and squeeze the lats down - this creates a tight strong rack position which is much more stable and strong than the goblet "rack" position. This allows for an "easier" squat and the ability to pack on more weight. if your goal is glute activation i would stick with DFSQ, to your point that the limiting factor in goblets has been your upper back. With DFSQs it's easier to focus on the squat, the legs and hips, where as i have found that grip becomes the factor of concern in my goblets well before my legs get shaky.
 
Personally, I would use both squat variations - they're both fantastic exercises. One thing to note, there is probably more posterior shear stress on the lower back in a heavy goblet squat because the weight is out in front of you opposed to a double kettlebell front squat which is essentially stacked close to your body. Alternatively, if you have assess to a barbell just do barbell front squats. However, any kind of squat variation has struggled to get over 35% Maximum Voluntary Contraction (MVC) in the glute max so it may not be a great exercise for glute activation. Something like kettlebell loaded hip thrust, any swing variation, step ups, band walking or a back extension would be better for glute activation.


Thanks
 
here is probably more posterior shear stress on the lower back in a heavy goblet squat because the weight is out in front of you opposed to a double kettlebell front squat which is essentially stacked close to your body.
I don't think so. Holding the bell away from you, as it gets heavier, is going to be limited by things other than your lumbar spine. And you use the weight in a goblet squat as a counterbalance to allow you to keep a more vertical torso (or at least that's what one should do).

-S-
 
I don't think so. Holding the bell away from you, as it gets heavier, is going to be limited by things other than your lumbar spine. And you use the weight in a goblet squat as a counterbalance to allow you to keep a more vertical torso (or at least that's what one should do).

With a heavy weight in a goblet squat it could be potentially difficult to keep a vertical torso because the weight is being pulled out in front of you, I know you're supposed to use the weight as a counterbalance but with a heavy weight that may be difficult to achieve. I'm not saying the the lumbar spine would be a limiting factor in a goblet squat; however, when you load up a heavy goblet squat form begins to break down and you may see an "excessive" forward lean because the weight is further from your centre of mass which would increase shear stress on the spine. Personally, I think the goblet squat is good to use a light to moderate weight with, if you want to go heavier I think an other variation would be better IMO. What do you think about heavy goblet squats Steve?

Here's a good article comparing a goblet squat to a front squat by Dan Blewett @banzaiengr Front Squat vs. Goblet Squat | T Nation
 
As info gentlemen; When I use my 40K to goblet squat I hold the bell truly like a goblet. On smaller bells I hold it by the horns. It is up close, right under my chin. I'm able to keep a very erect posture and squat until my elbows hit my knees. If I had a 48 I would simply go to that bell. What I may need to do in the future is go back to a barbell front squat. I have a lot to work on so we'll see how it goes. Thanks for all the knowledgeable responses so far.
 
Sounds like really good form! How do you get the bell into the true goblet position? When I perform the goblet squat my arms fatigue before my legs (as Steve has alluded to) and I wonder if holding it that way would lead to less arm fatigue, I've seen people (mutants) like Ollie Quinn swing it into position:

Or do you deadlift it into position?
 
I grab it by the horns and then swing/clean it into position, then switch my hand position. That's the tricky part switching hand position, both at the start and at the end. Oh yea, I hold the bell upside down. Either by the horns or as a goblet.
 
I like the swing and catch with a crush grip on bell. It creates a lot of tension it the upper body. Sets of 10 with 48kg gets me primed for my workout, barbell or kettlebell.
 
Hardest part of goblet squat with heavier bells is getting the bell in the goblet position initially. The double rack position is easier to get into and allows for more weight progression if you ever get heavier doubles. I don't know which carries over more to deadlift but I've heard people say that increasing front squat has increased their deadlift, especially getting it off the floor.

It would probably work best as a sequence. Do goblet squats until your arms are limiting your progress. Then switch to doublekettlebell front squats, which you could do for the rest of your life (Try double 32Ks if you don't believe it). If you want to go heavier then it is time for the barbell for loads more than 64Kgs.
 
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