Old Forum Double KB WTH

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etristan

Level 5 Valued Member
I, like many others, have seen tons of carry over from the TGUs. I usually gravitate to the PM at least twice a year, especially when getting ready for mud runs.

As for our sidebar about pulls, I'm in love with double cleans at the moment. They're honestly a lesson with every rep. You have to pay attention to all aspects of the movement, otherwise one bell outruns the other, you bang your hands, or you slam the bells into your torso.  Seems to carry over well to other stuff, too.
 

HerrMannelig

Level 3 Valued Member
Herr, how about answering the question, instead of talking around it? There was no confirmation bias in my case, and I did not try to convince you of anything mystical. I’m glad you can acknowledge that one could actually get stronger with kettlebells. I also did not ask you to explain why my deadlift improved.  Here’s the question again, since, despite quoting it, you seem to have missed it:
I had written several responses and as I edited it for brevity, I deleted the direct answer it seems.
“What other non-barbell modality (in case this was not clear, I did no barbell training during this period) do you think would have produced the same result?”
The answer was and is "I do not know".
 

HerrMannelig

Level 3 Valued Member
Jason, Herr Mann  seems to be a master of side steping questions, he must work in politics.
You can make it personal if you want, but that is not logical.

You make a very broad statement about my character instead of addressing what I write.
Fact is constant negative droning about Kettlebells is becoming somewhat tiresome. Have an opinion fine, but Why say the same things fifty times over, I ask? Many posters on the forum have noticed Increases in Deadlift after having a rest from Deads and doing Swings. Its pretty well documented, end of. Hopefully someone will do a proper controlled scientific study to verify things on a more accurate level. I think it would be intresting to get guys who never Deadlifted at all, just swung and get them swinging for a period of time then test there Deads.
The constant marketing and hype is irksome, because some people believe it. This forum appealed to me because of "strong first". Scientific and practical strength training is what should be lauded. However, it is full of marketing to sell what used to be a novelty. A lot of strong people use kettlebells, but they got strong doing other things. Some people get strong with kettlebells primarily, but they are rare and one usually has to reach quite elite performance to get impressive strength with kettlebells alone. A lot of people correct problems they have using kettlebells, which results in many benefits including increased strength, but that is more like physical therapy and correcting improper training of the past (ie, someone who overly focused on competition will find themselves often with injuries and reduced mobility as a result of their extreme focus).

Kettlebell, to be a valid training tool and method, must be done scientifically.
Andy, Agree that there may be transfer of strength from one Modaility to some others in many instances. But I think the KB Swing as many well documented examples.
I think deadlifting does more for swing strength than swings will do for deadlift strength.

Also, a two handed swing is not traditional use of the kettlebell, and two handed swings are more easily and more cheaply done with a t-bar. The more marketing progresses, the more the "kettlebell" is just a symbol.

Kettlebell lifting was traditional single hand overhead lifting, for reps.

The program minimum at first was the kettlebell snatch and a kettlebell bent press. Only of those movements required a kettlebell, and just barely (one can also snatch a dumbbell, and one does not have to worry about kettlebell specific technique). The program minimum than become a two handed swing and a get up...two movements which can be done much cheaper, heavier (or lighter), and perhaps more effectively with a homemade t-bar, standard weight plates, and a collared adjustable dumbbell handle. And it has very little to do with kettlebell training historically, so unless one attributes more to the general shape of the weight, there has been a drastic evolution in what is being promoted. One can literally do the PM and ROP without a kettlebell at all and it would be cheaper.

Is this because of research? Is this because traditional kettlebell lifting is actually not appealing to most people (it is not very popular in areas where it is "popular") and it needed to change? Is this because it was too hard (possible...starting people out with snatches and bent presses/windmills/side presses is a tall order)?

Either way, the attempt to keep kettlebells expensive, exclusive, and hyped is shady. It has become a "do what you want, but try to do it with a kettlebell" style of training. Doing weighted pullups? Use kettlebells, because they are better. Lifting weights overhead? Use kettlebells, because they are harder...or easier. Lifting weights from the floor? Use kettlebells. Doing loaded carries? Use kettlebells. Doing curls? Use kettlebells. Want conditioning? Use kettlebells. What strength? Use kettlebells. What mobility? Use kettlebells. Want big muscles? Use kettlebells. Want to be lean? Use kettlebells.

People should use what they have available, but they should not forget that the utility of it is usually based on its availability, not anything else. When all you have is a hammer...but if someone is selling particular hammers for a high price and saying to use it for everything, one has to wonder.

And the books about barbell lifting and bodyweight training do not spend any time hyping up the barbell or body...they just go for the training. But every kettlebell resource is full of kettlebell hype.

The shape of a weight is not mystical. People could make almost the same claims for almost everything else if it is remotely effective. Sandbag training can be hyped in the same manner, as can strand pulling, calisthenics, barbell lifting, dumbbell lifting, etc.

This community, from the outside, sometimes appears to be a cult, focused more on personality and hype, rather than results. Simple marketing anecdotes (about the one little story which was the origin of the whole "WTH? Effect" concept in the first place) become sacred.

Especially in this time, anything which can get one interested in keeping care of one's body and working to maintain and build strength is good. We live in a world where it is easy to become sedentary, the food industry tries to get us addicted to poison, and there are salespeople everywhere trying to make money on a fat and weak population. Some are liars, selling shortcuts which do nothing for health or strength. Some are selling a valuable service.

And some are both, selling a service which does deliver, but at inflated costs with inflated claims.
 

Mattsirpeace

Level 4 Valued Member
HerrMannelig,

I was curious what you had to say about kettlebells.  My curiosity is now satisfied.

Thank you.
 

Bill Been

Level 6 Valued Member
 
HerrMannelig,
I was curious what you had to say about kettlebells.  My curiosity is now satisfied.
Thank you.

As is everyone elses - forever.
Attention everyone:  HerrMannelig DOES NOT care for the the hyperbolic statements he sees around the subject of kettlebells.  You have now been notified. All of you. So now he DOES NOT HAVE TO SAY ANYTHING ELSE ABOUT IT. EVER. Because we all know already. All of us. Forever.
 

Kai Johnson

Level 2 Valued Member
Personally I like HerrMannelig's posts and his viewpoints. Sure his views may contrast with others here but  there are a lot of people here that do go too far in the direction of seeing kettlebell training as some kind of mystical thing that transcends reality.

How about we just keep calm and enjoy having some balance around here. DD forums suffered for lack of balance, lets keep it interesting here.

 
 
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