Kettlebell Double swings with uneven KBs

[Marc]

Hey folks,

for 1H swings I can confortably swing the 40kg 100x in 5 mins.
Sometimes I might do 48kg (16kg KB attached to 32kg via chains).
I also experimented with 2H swings with 64kg (40kg+16kg) but that makes the whole blob feel kinda awkward.
So could I just do uneven double swings with 40kg in one hand and 16kg in the other (switching hands each set). Any experience with that?

 

[Ian V]

Hi Marc,
I know that uneven work is given the OK but I tried double swings with 32 and 20 and the difference feels massive and very "off" - I have done 24 and 20 and the difference is hardly noticeable (to me) so I think personally that the difference is too great. Just to give you an idea of my strength level I have swung a Hungarian Core Blaster stacked up to 80 kg for 10 reps and so the weight as such was well within my capability. As always this is only my experience and as they say YMMV.
Good luck however you go with this.

 

[Maine-ah KB]

from my understanding is your trying to make the bells behave as if they were the same weight. If that's what's happening then sounds good to me. Uneven doubles is basically the only kind of double work I do since I don't on sets, it's been mostly okay. Only thing I don't recommend is really heavy clean mixed with a really light one, entirely to am acward. Other hand in even press front squats, waiter suitcase carry all great.

 

[Maine-ah KB]

Hit send too fast, uneven double swings have been fine but you have to focus hard on anti rotation. It's like a one handed swing while your free hand is miming the swing.

 

[Marc]

Alright thanks guys!
So, to have the smallest difference I will try 32 in one hand and 24 in the other later today and let you know how it went.

 

[J Petersen]

from my understanding is your trying to make the bells behave as if they were the same weight.

It sounds as though you are referring to a section of Return of The Kettlebell dealing with a double snatch (vice the double clean) preceding the double military press. However, beyond this singular double snatch in order to get your iron into position, it's not advised to use uneven loads for repetition ballistics (e.g. the long cycle C&J), and although not explicitly stated in the text, I've got a hunch that might also go for swings.

Respectfully, assuming that a trainee has pairs of various sizes, why would one want to make double swings unevenly distributed? It seems as though it would be counterproductive to what both a heavy one-armed swing (in the sense of making the anti-rotation aspect "easier") and double swings are intended to do.

We're all adults and I'm not about to dictate how one should train; I'm merely curious.

 

[Maine-ah KB]

@J Petersen ahh so not advised makes sense with my experience with the double clean. The reason I've worked with uneven doubles is to practice the techniques without investing in more kettlebells. So no ballistics just grinds?

I have considered buying a pair of 2kilo plates and attach them to a kettlebell to make them weigh the same? Also not sure if that's a good idea. I'm often good at bad ideas

 

[Ian V]

@Maine-ah KB I use a 2kg and 4kg solid dumb bell which I tie against the handle of my bells - a good length of strong cord and it sits very nicely and importantly securely. I have swung the bell more times than I can remember with this attached and never had a problem. Just remember if you do cleans to set the bell so that the dumb bell does not hit against your wrist. That would be your bad idea for the day.
On the subject of uneven grinds I just clean the bells individually and then press away.

 

[Maine-ah KB]

@Ian V thanks that's something I'll look into. Also for the warning it kinda sounds like something I'd do...twice... hey people Learn from there mistakes eventually!

 

[Marc]

It sounds as though you are referring to a section of Return of The Kettlebell dealing with a double snatch (vice the double clean) preceding the double military press. However, beyond this singular double snatch in order to get your iron into position, it's not advised to use uneven loads for repetition ballistics (e.g. the long cycle C&J), and although not explicitly stated in the text, I've got a hunch that might also go for swings.

Respectfully, assuming that a trainee has pairs of various sizes, why would one want to make double swings unevenly distributed? It seems as though it would be counterproductive to what both a heavy one-armed swing (in the sense of making the anti-rotation aspect "easier") and double swings are intended to do.

We're all adults and I'm not about to dictate how one should train; I'm merely curious.

Problem is: I only have one KB of each weight and I would like to do heavy swings. I would not use this method solely for swings.

 

[Kettlebelephant]

Problem is: I only have one KB of each weight and I would like to do heavy swings. I would not use this method solely for swings.

For heavy swings it's either buying monster bells, which are extremely expensive or buying something like this: StrengthTool - Hungarian Core Blaster - Plate Loaded Kettlebell - Olympic Size (Also expensive, but you can vary the weight and there are cheap DIY solutions aswell).

For other exercises you always have the option of taping a weight to the lighter KB.
That's a good option if you just want to test out doubles or just want to use them for a short 4 week routine or something like that.
If you plan to consistently use doubles there's no way around buying pairs IMO.
If you order a pair of 16-48 (in 4Kg steps) you end up with ~2000€ (including shipping costs). This might sound expensive, but you'll get quality equipment, which will last you a lifetime.

 

[Marc]

Thanks guys!
I actually have 16, 24, 32 and 40 as pairs. But sadly they had to divorce when I moved into my own apartment, leaving one of each at my parent's place for when I am there (Also my brother is not too sad about that).

So, I just tried double swings with 32+24. 5x every minute on the minute for 16 mins (switching hand each time).
Was not too hard and I bareley noticed the difference.

 

[Martine Kerr]

My two cents on this discussion...keep in mind that my 'technical' snatch sized bell is 12kg...but my 'technical' 100 RM in 5 minutes for 1H Swings is 20kg.
1) Being rather vertically challenged, I need to sacrifice the depth of my hinge in double swings to get the two bells through without clocking my knees. I personally find anything more than 4kg difference puts torque in my SI joint that I don't enjoy.
2) BUT I love uneven double cleans with up to 8kg difference. Super tough on my brain to make them feel the same (20 & 12kg)...and I video diligently to watch for any unwanted twisting.
3) Duct Taping a plate at the bottom of existing kbs works (at least it did with 4kg)...if you're tall enough to balance off the lower center of gravity. Otherwise it feels like swinging a kettlebell with a too big window.
4) 12kg differential between kbs COULD mathematically give an anti rotation stimulus similar to swinging one single 12kg. I'm just saying.
5) Can you snatch the 40kg? Maybe you could consider doing your first 2-4 sets per arm as snatches...then your single arm 40kg might not be so easy.
6) Doesn't work with the goal of 100 in 5 but shift a session to doing them as Dead Stop Swings.

Not sure any of that is relevant given our different sizes, but in a nutshell, I'd stay away from building too awkward blobs, and double swings with too high a differential if there are knee, hip, back history.

 

[Marc]

I actually do those uneven swings on the heavy day of RoP. For the medium day I stick to 1H swings and snatches on light day.
I def agree that massive blobs just feel awkward due to their different inertia.
I got myself a 28 for snatches and doing double swings with 1x28+1x32 almost feels like 2x32.
Generally, from my experiments in the last days I found that a difference of 8kg is acceptable. Anything more that that seems to be not too good.

 

[J Cox]

I actually do those uneven swings on the heavy day of RoP. For the medium day I stick to 1H swings and snatches on light day.
I def agree that massive blobs just feel awkward due to their different inertia.
I got myself a 28 for snatches and doing double swings with 1x28+1x32 almost feels like 2x32.
Generally, from my experiments in the last days I found that a difference of 8kg is acceptable. Anything more that that seems to be not too good.

I can actually second this opinion. I did a 20kg and a 24kg and found they felt virtually the same. I wouldn't get crazy with the differences (Not swinging a 20kg with a 32), but a slight difference isn't going to send you off your axis. I don't really want to go for an 8kg difference if I don't have to, but, @Marc, you have inspired me to try.